What’s working in home service marketing in 2026?
John Wilson and Sam Preston break down Meta Ads, Google Ads, LSAs, speed to lead, call centers, and how contractors can find their next growth channel.
They cover why marketing channels eventually level off, the rise of Meta Ads, Google’s shift toward AI and Performance Max, and why your call center is a critical part of your marketing engine.
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IN THIS EPISODE
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• What’s working in home service marketing in 2026
• Why marketing channels eventually level off
• Meta Ads for HVAC, plumbing, and home services
• Why speed to lead matters
• Turning low-intent leads into booked jobs
• Why your call center is part of marketing
• Google Ads, LSA, and Performance Max
• Testing new marketing channels faster
• Growing through new markets and services
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SPONSOR
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Catalyst | May 3–5 | Akron, Ohio
100+ home service owners and operators. Three days of tactical sessions, real conversations, and learning from great operators.
Grab your seat: https://www.ownedandoperated.com/catalyst
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John Wilson
https://www.linkedin.com/in/johnbwilson1/
Sam Preston
https://www.linkedin.com/in/sam-preston-a682103b6/
More Ways To Connect with OAO
John Wilson, CEO of Wilson Companies
Jack Carr, CEO of Rapid HVAC
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Welcome back to Owned and Operated, a top 150 business and entrepreneurship podcast. I'm your host, John Wilson. On this show, we talk about the home service industry, we talk about how to buy businesses, we talk about how to build them, we talk about my own business. And we also talk with my friends on what they're doing inside the industry.Today, I'm rejoined by Sam Preston in person. Hey. Live. Let's go. Live in- Let's go ... live in studio. Um, and we're- Are my guns bigger in person or on camera? Yeah, before we started filming- ... we were flexing in front of the camera to see how good we looked. Yeah. So if you see us doing that, uh- It's all, uh- ... just ignore itit's all, it's all the steroids. It's... Literally, that's- It's all the steroids ... I'm a dad- Yeah ... and a business owner. I don't have time for anything else but steroids. Yeah. So. I run. Yeah, I run. Yeah. Oh, yeah? K- k- Um, welcome back in person. Uh, this will be a ton of fun. We're here at the Breaking Five workshop.Bro. And it's been good. I love this. I love this. Best one yet. It is good. It keeps getting better. It is good. Yeah. Yeah. Well, one of the reasons why it's better than last time is because it's bigger. Yeah, it's big. It's like, what, 35? Yeah, we, uh, we had, I think it's 35 people. And, um, I mean, literally- The, it, the room is too small for it Yeah So, 'cause we had to cap it.We capped it, uh, like a month ago, and, uh, we're thinking about doing it ... We're thinking about moving it to a different section of the warehouse- Mm ... um, to, like, allow for, like, 40 or 50 or whatever- Yeah ... 'cause we had to shut off, um, tickets, like, uh, yeah, like back in early August. Yeah. I- Which is crazy. Like, we've never had to do that before I literally had some people in Akron that were prospects looking at, you know, doing marketing with us, and I was like, "You should be at the Breaking Five."Mm-hmm. And I couldn't get tickets. Yeah. They're all sold out. Yeah. I was like, "My bad. You're like here- Yeah. "... but you cannot come." I, I think, I think we'll be at moving on to a new room, um- Okay ... just- And not Mexico or like- Yeah. Well, there is- ... you know, Cabo ... like a Mexico... We're doing like a little Mexico retreat in November or so, I think.Are you? Yeah. Okay. Did I get invited to this? Uh- Or just like not in the know? I don't know. Yeah. No. Well, it's like home service above 10 million. Are you above 10 million? Oh, I am not, no, unfortunately. Haven't made that yet. But yeah, the, it, Mexico would be fun. Yeah. Mexico. That's awesome. Um, so what are we talking about today?We're talking about, like, marketing in 2026. Dude, marketing in 2026 is crazy. It is- I mean, I feel like I- ... insane ... I don't know if I've said this every year. I, I don't wanna look. I don't wanna look back at, like, transcripts and be like, "For four years, John's complained about the state of marketing." But, like, it, kinda complaining.I said this in the last podcast, but it's so true. Like, four years ago it was like this market is so volatile. Every six months something- Yeah ... changes with Google, and we had to change everything. Yeah. And now it's like every other day. Yeah. Like, if I go to look up a YouTube video on how to do something, if it's older than a week old, I'm not watching it.Yeah, that's crazy. It's already outdated. That's crazy. And so it's just, it's a different world. Yeah. I think this, I think marketing, um- I, I bring this up a lot. Have you and I ever talked about the elephant curve? Mm-mm. Okay. So I think that... This is not my concept. This is, I think his name's Jason Cohen. Um, and he was the founder of WP Engine.Mm-hmm. And he has a personal blog, and it's called something bear. I, I don't remember. But if you s- if you search WP Engine, uh, elephant curve, like the blog- the article pulls up and, um, I think everybody should read it. I think it's like f- a fundamental lesson in marketing. Okay. So the concept is marketing follows an elephant curve.Mm-hmm. So it goes from, like if you trace an elephant, like if you're watching this on video, and an elephant's just standing. You know, you have the trunk, it goes up along the head, the back, and then down the tail. Yep. So it's like, it's a bell curve, basically. Bell curve. But we're calling it the elephant curve.Uh, and I think it's because of the pace of growth. So the idea behind the elephant curve is that when you add a new channel, you begin your curve. So you get fast results with a new channel. And those results, you go from like, "Hey, we didn't do meta ads and now we do meta ads." Which by the way, like we should talk about meta ads 'cause meta ads are like, I feel like the craziest thing that's come out of 2026.Yes. Um, but uh, so hey, we didn't do this channel, now we do this channel, and we added a net new 400 leads a month. Mm-hmm. Um, but like that doesn't just keep growing from zero to 400 leads a month forever. It's not this exponential curve. It flattens out- Mm-hmm ... along the back of the elephant and then eventually declines because you have maximized that channel.Yeah. I think we all instinctively understand this. Yeah. Um, and there's a few different ways to like combat it, but I, I think that in 2026 and 2025 and like as this has gotten more competitive, we are just having to mo- iterate faster. Yeah. So I think five years ago, hey, we launched a new channel. Well, nobody's really using LSA yet, so like we had a lot of room to run on LSA before we hit our flat line.Well, now it's more competitive. Yeah. Uh, so you just run out of room. I would say meta right now is like kind of an underutilized- Yep ... uh, channel by most service businesses- Yep ... us included. Um, so I think, uh, yeah, I, I think it, the elephant curve idea is you add new channels and then as you add more channels, you don't solve your problem.So if you add like, when I mean channels, I mean like Google Ads is a channel, mailers is a channel- Mm-hmm ... uh, canvassing is a channel. Like these are all channels. Yep. But as you add more channels, you don't like solve the problem. It doesn't stay exponential. Each channel, it's just a bigger elephant curve.Yeah. So like you just stack the elephants on top of each other. Yep. So like, okay, meta, we had huge results really fast and it stabled out. Yep. Well, Google, we had huge results, then it stabled out. Mailers, we had huge results, then it stabled out. So our job is to find more channels- Yeah ... after we've stabled out the previous one because it will stable out.Mm-hmm. And I think that in 2026, like my hot take is that we're just having to do that way faster- Yeah ... than we used to because, uh, there's just, just more competitive. Yeah. John, do you have that, can I have that cortado? Mm. Daniel, leave that in. Someone just delivered me a quad espresso. Mm. And I-Tea. I was also told this was yours. I mean, I'll drink tea. Drink it all. I mean, in- Yeah, I'll drink it after. Sorry. Thank you, John. Elephant curve. Okay. I'd, uh, I've never heard of that, uh, the elephant curve, but it, like, it makes sense. Um, I- Yeah, I think it's instinctual. You know like, "Hey, I'm gonna launch a new channel and we're gonna get a bunch of leads."But eventually, like, that will steady out. Yeah. Like, no one's like, "Oh, LSA can go on forever and grow exponentially." I, I think we all know it instinctively. That's just like here's a study around it. Yeah. I mean, at, at some point you only have so many people searching in your market on Google. Yes. Right?Like, you might even be in a really big market. Yes. It might be a huge search volume, but at some point you max that out and you have to go find other channels. Um- Well, and the way to combat it- Mm-hmm ... is you've ... Adding more channels doesn't necessarily defeat the problem- No ... because you will just have more elephant curves that you have to deal with.Yes. So what you have to do is you have to find a new customer segment. So for home service, that's like a new location. Yeah. So like, okay, well, we're, you know, $30 million or whatever and I guess 40 now in Northeast Ohio. Mm-hmm. But like we added Indiana. Yeah. And we're seven or eight or something out there.Mm-hmm. So new segment, new customers to introduce our services to- Yep ... new curve. Or you add new products or services, which, uh, is also like a fair way to do it. So like, hey, you begin your curve, you get more people in the system, and then, hey, that channel works- Mm-hmm ... so let's introduce electric HVAC, whatever.Uh, but those are the two ways to like defeat the problem- Yeah ... and continue exponential growth. Mm-hmm. Is you stack more channels, yes, but then you also have to introduce, uh, like net new customers- Yep ... like new market or new product service, or both. How do you ... So inside of a, a certain market, let's say I don't, I don't wanna actually want to grow.Like, I don't wanna go to Indiana. Yeah. Like, I like my local area. Wow. Right? Like so that's- Indiana's great ... no, no offense. No offense. Indiana is great. Like, I'm sure it's great. Right. Yeah. Um, but like, so y- you're saying like, the way you would just keep growing inside that same market is to add other product, add other services- Yeahor add another channel that's not in the same boat- Yeah ... as the current, you know, like- Well, it's- LSA to Google Ads is literally the same thing. I, I ... Instinctually I think we all understand this. Hey, in order to grow, I have to grow horizontal- Mm-hmm ... uh, which is like breadth of service, or vertical, which is more locations of plumbing only.Yeah. Like Roto- Are you gonna be a Roto-Rooter- Mm-hmm ... where you have, I don't even know, 500 locations of plumbing? Mm-hmm. Um, and then are you gonna be neighborly or something where it's like a bunch of different franchises? Now Roto-Rooter is a good example 'cause they ended up doing both. Like they hit maturity.They have I don't even know how many locations, and then they added water restoration. Mm-hmm. So then they did the second part of that, which is- New service Interesting But yeah, I think we all know that, like, you can only do... Like, the growth model is more locations or more services. Yeah. Uh, for a long time we did more services, so we just, like, continued to drive the same.I think the issue is it complicates the business. Why is that? Like HVAC is a totally different business than plumbing. Yeah. Um, I think that, like, Roto-Rooter is, is like my key example, or Zoom Drain or something like that. Yeah. Like, doing one service and just doing it at scale is a simpler business model to run.Yeah. I think. Oh, yeah. Than, like, seven service lines under one roof. I mean, we're running with that right now for my own business. Mm-hmm. Where we've done SEO for so long, and that is very much website and content and back links and all that kinda jazz, and now socials is starting to play into- Yesaffecting your, your SEO. Yeah. And so when we say, like, "Oh, we do SEO for you," but we don't do, like, one of the major- Yeah ... functionalities that's gonna make a difference, like, that hurts. Mm-hmm. And so I'm like, "Okay, well, how do I, how do I go win in posting on Instagram and Facebook?" Yeah. Which we've avoided on purpose Yeah, yeahfor years. Um, and so trying to figure that out as a new service so that we can grow- Yeah, a new service line. Yeah ... our organic. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it's interesting. Um, so okay, that was, like, my lecture on, uh, elephant curves, but the state of marketing, if 2026, is I think it is just accelerated the need to add channels- Mmand potentially accelerated the need to choose one of those two options. Yeah. Now, that could also just be my perspective from my own business and, like, obviously I'm not running, like... I'm running a larger business in the trades, so m- maybe that's... I don't know. Maybe that's tainting it. Yeah, I mean, I think, uh, most, the majority of businesses are, you know, probably sub five- Yeahuh, that are trying to grow, and I think that if you are in that spot, adding a new service is much harder- Yeah, I think so ... than just going- Yeah ... deeper into that current service. And so I think- Yeah ... that's where you start. I actually think it's the wrong decision. To, to add a service below five? I think so.I think that, um, I think that... Yeah. My hot take is I think it's the wrong decision. Yeah. I, I can point to a few awesome examples of, like, hypergrowth companies that are single trade. Mm-hmm. Um, and they're just doing a great job. Mm-hmm. And, like, I've said this on the years for podcast, o- on this four years on this podcast, but if I could go back, I would've been plumbing only to, like, $40 million and then introduced HVAC and then introduced electric.Mm. Like, we love HVAC and electric, and our teams are awesome. Yeah. But it is easier to run and scale one business and then add more onto it, um, once you have infrastructure. I mean, now it doesn't matter. Like, we're an at scale business, but- Yeah ... it would've been easier growing- To do that ... just as a solo.Uh, Call Dad did that. Yeah, totally. Just introduced HVAC. Yeah. They just introduced plumbing. Yeah. So, like, they're at 10 locations. Uh, so this is similar to Roto-Rooter, and they're at 10 locations and all HVAC. They, like, maximized breadth. Not maximized, but 10 locations is a lot. Like, I mean- Yeah ... we're only at six or something, and then they added plumbing.Yep. Service maxing, that's what we can call it. Yeah There you go. I like that. I like that. Um, Meta is wi- I mean, ba- back to state, but Meta is kinda wild. Meta is super interesting right now. Meta is really interesting. It is. I keep running into these businesses. Meta was written off, which honestly, like, I th- I think, I think that, like, 2025 and 2026 marketing for, like, me- Mm-hmmhas mainly just been, like, re-exploring- Mm-hmm ... things that I wrote off five years ago. Because, like, it's like, you know, five years ago I was like, "Ah, this fucking doesn't work." And like, like, uh, like I feel like Angie's List or Meta, like you can- Mm-hmm ... sort of pick one. Dude, Angie's List is literally our highest ROI channel.Dude. And it's not close, and it is so annoying. That is ... It is so annoying, 'cause for years I was like- I know ... "Fuck this shit." I know. Dude, it's the best. Like, it is our best channel. Ugh. I meet so many people that say that. I meet just as many people that hate it. Crazy. But like every single time we're talking to a prospect, I'm talking like, "Hey- Yepwhat are your lead partners? Have you tried Angie's?" And they go, "No." I'm like, "Please go try it, because I don't know if it's in your market, but so many people count it as their best lead source." It's crazy. It's crazy. I mean, for years, like, I don't know. So anyways, so 2025 and 2026- ... is just like, it's not even us being creative or, like, inventing.You know, I feel like we- Yeah ... went through a few years where we were, like, ahead of the curve and like- Yeah ... and like, I mean, in, in a lot of ways I still think we are, but, like, a lot of '25 and '26 was just be like, "Hey, you know that thing that we hated five years ago?" Yeah. "Like, maybe we should just look at it again."Yeah. "See what we think." Yeah. Oh my God. It worked. Yeah. Yeah. But Meta Ads has been, uh, similar. We have not had the same results yet. Mm-hmm. We did it with, like, drains. We're trying it with drains right now. Yeah. But, like, I'm seeing companies close to, like, high eight figures or nine figures that Meta is, like, what Google was to us three years ago.It is their dominant channel- Yeah ... which is mind-boggling- Yeah ... to me. Yeah. I, uh, we're... I'm, I'm, I'm, like, redesigning our Meta package right now. Yeah. Um, Meta doesn't work well for people that suck at speed to lead or have a good CSR. Totally. Or I would also say have a premium price. Premium price. What the bi- that is the biggest thing that I see successful...Again, we're not having this experience, so, like, I'm not, you know, this is me talking from just, like, "Here's what I see." Mm-hmm. If you are premium price, you will struggle. Yeah. Like, you need... You can be premium price, but you need a, like a, you need a low, low option. Yeah. 'Cause Meta is just a different, it is a low intent channel.You can't, you know, you don't, you're not getting no heats. Yeah. You're getting people bidding five contractors at a time- Yeah ... to, like, do a repair. Uh, so it's a tremendous amount of leads, but, like, it's, it's cheap. Yeah. Like, the consumer's cheap. Yeah. Um, so you have to be good at speed to lead because you- Yesare competing so well, and you have to good at, have a good, talented CSR- Yes ... uh, team. Totally. Um- Which we c- we would have never... It's the same with Angie. We would have never, uh, been able to do... I think that's why it didn't work for us in the first place. Yeah. I think all of these lead channels, in 2025 we rebuilt our speed to lead system.Yeah. Which part of it's software Um, and like Evoke is doing that. But then a lot of it is, like, our, our behavior, like what you're saying right now, like our call center behavior. Mm-hmm. 'Cause speed to lead is, uh, yeah, it's hard to get right, and it's important. Mm-hmm. But, like, once you do it, once you r- once you have the technology, and most importantly the people on top of the technology to, like, make it better, that's when it works, and then any lead channel works.Yeah. Th- uh, that's what we found, where it's like, "Hey, now we have this system that we didn't have five years ago." Yeah. Like, it's not because Angie got better. Angie was probably the same. It's 'cause we got better- Yeah ... and now it works for us. Yeah. But it's the same with, like, yeah, meta leads. Like, if you get 10 leads, maybe you only book two.Yeah. So you gotta sell one, you know? Well, uh, uh, for the audience, 'cause I get this question a lot. Yeah. And I feel like people don't actually understand when we talk about speed to lead, like, what does that mean? Yeah. Okay. 'Cause I'll go, "Hey, you need to have good speed to lead." And they'll go, "Oh yeah, I've got good speed to lead."And it's like, "Okay. Hold on. What do you mean?" Yes. Yeah. They're like, "Oh, I answer the phone- Quickly ... when someone calls." Yes. I'm like, "Okay, great, but, like, how many rings?" Yeah. Like, if someone submits a form or is, like, reaching out via Angie's List, how quickly do you... Like, is it seven seconds? Yeah. Is it 30?Like, so when some- when you say, like, "You have to have good speed to lead"- Yes ... define it to me like I'm a five-year-old and don't really use the internet. Yeah, no, that, that's a good point, 'cause I, I hear this a lot too. It's like, "Well, we respond." And I'm just like, "Well, ... shit. Can... Where are you? Can I compete with you?"Um, yeah, so we... Speed to lead is when you get a call, do you, do you miss any calls? Mm-hmm. How fast do you pick up? Like, we pick up at seven seconds. Like- Yeah ... it's been seven seconds for years. We watch it every week. Like, seven seconds. Yeah. Yeah. It's, um, I'm anal about it. And, uh, seven seconds. Um, so we pick up at seven seconds, and, uh, so that's phone calls in.But the bigger you get and the more, like, you have leads outside of phone calls, that's actually where I think it gets a little bit more complicated. Mm-hmm. Because suddenly you're watching, like, contact- Yeah ... instead of call. Yeah. And, you know, if we get, I don't know, 500 phone call leads in a week- Yep ... in, uh, Akron, we might get 2,000 written leads.Yeah. Like, it is a huge amount. Yeah. Um, so I, I think that's the complicated one. So, uh, so what... The way that works is it's, like, a technology, uh, that all of the leads go into. You immediately text them, like it's automatic, which I think is the important part, is the automatic contact. Yeah. Um, and then once there's, uh, automatic contact, like, continuing it into a, into a booking.Yes. And adding the human being. Uh, so, like, as an example for, like, low-intent lead sources like Angie's, Meta, Modernize, like anyone that's like, "Here's a lead," that's not G- Google LSA, um- A 30% book rate is considered good. Yeah. So three out of 10. Yep. Which is not high. Nope. And, uh, what we found is the automated text gets you from, like, zero to t- 15, 20% book rate- Mm-hmmon those contacts. The trained CSR that you're talking about, like- Yeah ... once you contact, if they don't respond back, like, who's hounding them? Yeah. How do you, how do you add calls? How do you add emails? Like, how do you book that lead like you paid for it? That's what gets you to 30 and above- Yep ... book rate.Yep. So, so I love this. Okay. Speed to lead. When we say speed to lead, we mean are you answering- It's a system ... the phone, phone within seven seconds? Yeah. Um, and then- Are you missing any calls? Are you missing any calls? Do you have technology to pick up calls at night? Some people call at 11:00 PM. Mm-hmm.Mm-hmm. Like, what's your overflow? And then when, uh, after your initial contact, how often you are reaching out to that person via SMS, phone call, and email. Yeah. How many times do you do it on the first day? Yeah. I'm asking. Like, how many? Like, do you reach them seven times? Um, it's a lot. Yeah, I mean, uh, I mean, there's some companies that do, like, 30 times in that first week if you don't book.Yeah. So that's, that is speed to lead. Yeah. And I like that. Yeah. Yeah. It, it's a, it's a system, and I think, um, I've said this so much, probably a couple years ago In plumbing, HVAC, electric, we are s- we are such a unique industry- Mm-hmm ... versus, um, windows as an example, or bathroom models or, uh, whatever else.So as you're thinking about your call center and how to handle leads, you should almost never be studying larger plumbing, HVAC, electric contractors, uh, because it is not complicated to get big in plumbing, HVAC, electric on broken furnaces and broken water heaters. No. It's like, it's kind of straightforward.That's how the industry works. Yeah. When you start adding low intent lead sources, like bathroom models has to, or windows has to, where they have to get a lead and really, like, own that lead, control it, sell it, it's a, it's a different level of maniacal. Mm-hmm. Um, it was pretty humbling. When we first started looking into our speed to lead, we talked to a guy who's doing epoxy garage floors.Mm. Mm. It was like $2 million. Wow. This guy knew more about his lead funnel than we did, and we were a $25 million business, and he was w- he was running circles around me. Let's go. And he was, like, growing the business purely on meta. And I was like, "I don't even think we could do that right now." Yeah. Because we're not locked in the same way that this guy is locked in.Yeah. So yeah, it was really interesting. So yeah, yeah, you don't study other plumbing, HVAC, electric companies. You study companies that have... that live or die by low intent leads. Mm. Which plumbing, electric lives or dies by high intent leads. Yeah. So yeah, you gotta, you gotta study everyone else. Love that.So gotta be good at speed to lead- Yep ... in order for meta to work, and then you have to be good at turning those leads into appointments- Yes ... with a talented CSR team. Yes. Um, and I think people get that mixed up a lot. They think- Well, you don't have to in plumbing, HVAC. I think that's, like, your CSR team is trained from day one to book high intent leads- Mm-hmmthat are phone calls When you add low intent non-phone calls, it is a totally different call center. Like, completely different. I mean, we had to rebuild our call center last year completely- Mm-hmm ... around this idea because we were not thriving because we were building a company like how this used to work.Okay. So yeah, I thi- I thi- to me it makes total sense that people aren't good at it because- Yeah ... like we weren't good at it. Yeah. I mean, now I think we're really good at it. Now you're good at it? Yeah, it's a strength. Let's go. Yeah, it is cool. I love that. Yeah. I love that. Yeah. Okay. And- All right, so, so back to Meta.Yeah. So you're seeing Meta pop. Meta's working so well across the board. Yeah. Uh, again, not for people that suck at speed to leads and have calls. If you don't have that- Yeah ... don't spend money on Meta, it's just a waste of money. Yeah. But if you can figure those two things out, and you already have the systems- Yeahin place, you've been running, you're growing- Yeah ... you're looking for that second channel, it's a great place to be. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, well I keep, I keep seeing these, um, I keep seeing these HVAC companies specifically growing on Meta, and it is, it's fascinating- Yeah ... to watch because I think, um, it takes a lot of work, and I think that's why people aren't very good at it.But once you, yeah, once you like put in the fundamentals It's crazy. Like, there's a company that went from 10 million to 150 out in, uh, well, I'm not gonna say where, but, like, on the back of Meta. Just Meta? Yes. Geez. Like, yes. It's like the yard signs guy. I'm like, "What?" I know. I know. How did you do that?That's the thing. When I saw that, I was like, "What the fuck?" Oh my God. And then, um, there's another company, uh, Topline, I think they talk pretty publicly about this. Okay. Um, and I, I'm pretty sure they've got... 'Cause I see their trucks, like, sort of bee-bop around, but I think they're out of Pittsburgh or- Yeahor something like that. Um, I don't know how big they are now, 40 or 50 or 60 or something. But, uh, almost exclusively Meta, is my understanding. Yeah. But what they, what they have is, like, it's a very low ticket item. I believe lower gross margin, but I've never seen their financials, so I don't know. Yeah.Lower gross margin, and, um, and I think that's what you need, and then, like, an obsessive system over, like, handling those leads. Yeah. But you know, the, you know, if you're a retail, like... If you're a retail HVAC shop, your average ticket might be, like, 12 to 14,000, but the people succeeding on Meta are installing 9 to $10,000 full systems.Got it. So, like, it is a difference. Yeah. It's a to- it's a different type of sales. Yeah. Which I also think that's why HVAC, current HVAC companies don't really know how to deal with it, because they're used to, like, going up, up, up, and this is like, it's m- it's Meta. Yeah. It's, like, kind of a race to the bottom.But it is a unique amount of volume. Yeah. It's half of the global population. That's a lot. It's a unique amount of volume. Here's what I love about Meta, is that- Let's do it ... anyone can go compete. It's not like Google Business Profile- Yes ... where people have been doing this for 20 years. Yeah, yeah. They already have 20,000 reviews.Yeah. And you're just like, "Man, how do I go beat that?" Yeah. It's not like Google Ads where, again, like, people, you know, have, like, a- Well, and the big companies aren't good at it. They suck. They're not. Well, and the thing that's, I, like... The hyper growers today- Mm-hmm ... are Meta ads hyper growers. Like that, that's the thing that's been blowing my mind for the past, like, 6 to 12 months, is all the companies that I see, like, canStill clipping 30% year-over-year- Yeah ... growth in the high eight figures or low nine figures- Yeah ... are driven by Meta. Yeah. Which, like, that's crazy. Whereas, like, when you look at the l- sort of, I'll call them legacy $100 million businesses, like they were built like how Wilson was built. Yeah. Meta ... Or not Meta, but like Google, Leadags, Mailers.Yeah. Yes. Mailers is actually crazy, too. I'm seeing a lot of Mailers right now. Really? Yeah. Oh, my gosh. Yeah. I love that. Yeah, like Meta and Mailers is like- It's a combo. Oh. It's s- But, like, the, the hyper growers, the guys growing, like, 20 or 30% or more- Yeah ... um, I'm saying 20 or 30%, like, 'cause these are, like, already $50 million businesses.You know, that's a lot for a $50 million business. Yeah. I will say the only other thing of Meta that I've seen is, uh, clients can get in their own way because of how much creative that actually needs to be created to make it work. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. And I think the idea behind is like, "Oh, I'm just gonna do- It can slow downa couple different, uh, campaigns," and it just gets slowed down- Yeah ... and it doesn't work as well. Um, and so, uh, having that creative team just allowed to go and test and waste some money and- I, I think that's been our benefit is like for ... We're doing it for drains right now. Yeah. And, like, we have our own film team and like- YeahI t- I think it would be ... I also think that's another reason, like, it never worked before is we didn't have our own- Yeah ... like we just couldn't do it I personally spend 15K a month on meta ads, and it works well, so. Yeah. Um- Like, for the, for your- Agency ... home service business. Yeah. And so we like, we like Facebook over here.Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, Facebook's crazy. All right, so Facebook, mailers, what else we got? Um, Google Ads is super interesting. I'm like, I'm so fascinated. I have not... We're in the middle of our switch, so I don't have an opinion yet. Okay. What should I expect? Okay. So just- I got- ... for context, LSAs is moving from the LSA platform, and it's being merged into Google Ads.Yep. Which I could see either being awesome or a shit show, but I- doesn't seem like it'll be neutral. It, it is gonna be both, for sure. Perfect. For sure. So yeah, so we, so we, like, preempted it- ... because, like, the moment we got announced, we're just like, "We're doing this so we can control the timing." Mm-hmm.Mm-hmm. Because Google will eventually just sunset it, and then we won't have an option at all. Yep. So we're just gonna do it and start so we can control our timing. Which none of our clients' accounts are actually inside of Google Ads yet. It's all still- Ours went live- ... LSAs ... this week. Did it? Yep. None of... I, like, checked this morning- We should go look at Jesse's'cause I wanted to make sure. Yeah, we should look at Jesse's. Yeah. We should. Um, I got an email from Google this morning that they're now connecting, uh, YouTube profiles with Google Ads accounts. Oh, that's interesting. So, um, we're running... So last year we ran a bunch of- Oh ... PMax, uh, campaigns. Didn't work.This year, I mean, it works sometimes, sometimes it didn't. Yeah. This year, PMax is popping off, and if you look into- Yeah ... what's working in PMax, it's search. Which is what, search has always been- Yes ... the main driver. Yeah. So if I'm looking in my little crystal ball, I'm looking into the future, like, they're g- like, I think they're gonna get rid of traditional search.I thought- I think they're gonna get rid of LSA. I thought they were turning it into, like, chat based- Well, I, I- Like, in November, I thought. I'm... I think they're getting rid of it all, and it's all going into PMax. Like, what's the biggest complaint that you ever heard about, um, or that you heard the most often about LSA?I don't even know, like inconsistent I can't spend my entire budget. Oh, that is right. That is, yes, that is right. Who- That's Google's biggest problem- Yes ... is they're not spending your entire budget. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So what are they gonna do? They're gonna pull that into P Max. Yeah, that'll be interesting.You know, I think it was... So we spent the... Okay, I like this a lot. So we spent the first half of the episode talking about, like, all the channels that we sort of like don't cur- And I, I wonder if, it's not even PPC anymore, it's just like Google Ads. But I wonder- Yeah ... if next year Google Ads will be like the resurged channel.I, I, I think so. And so I'm trying to tell everybody to be running P- Performance Max campaigns, the AI Max campaigns. Yeah. Um, you know, we, again, we haven't had a lot of success specifically in the, uh, in the, the AI Max, but, like, that's where Google's going. Just feed its data? Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, you just got- I, I, I think that kind of makes sense.Even if it's just, like, 500 or 1,000 bucks a month or something- Something ... just to, like, feed it- Yeah ... so that way when you're ready to activate. That's a good idea. Yep. 'Cause that's where it's going. That's, that's interesting. They're gonna put it all in one system. I mean, Meta, that's what Meta does. Meta has, like, one system, you use it- Yeahand it distributes to Instagram- No, it makes sense. It makes sense ... and Facebook and other partners. It makes sense. Like, it's literally gonna be the same thing. Google's gonna have one spot. This is where you go do paid, um, because everything's gonna go to the AI search. Yeah. Like, it's not gonna be your traditional search.They're gonna get rid of that completely- Yeah ... if I'm guessing correctly. Yeah. And I have been wrong before. No, I think you're right. I think, yeah, this'll be, this'll be interesting. I, I bet this opens up an opportunity because I think a lot of people have written off PPC, because ROI for PPC is, like, four to five.Mm-hmm. Whereas, like, LSA is, like, seven. Mm-hmm. Um, I mean, obviously some people do a lot better on PPC, but, uh, yeah, that'll be interesting. I think so. That'll be really interesting This can be fun. You know what's kind of, um... I was thinking about this the other day. There's, my head is not fully, like, wrapped around this concept yet, so, like, what you're getting is, uh- Half-bakedfairly raw. Yeah. I, I was thinking about, um... So I started working on this, we're working on this, like, data project, and we are, I'm building, like, a dashboard for a call center. Okay. And I think this is back to, like, the state of marketing in 2026 and home service, and what I think is interesting, marketing has always been, like, the most important thing.Mm-hmm. It's just, I think, more of the industry's starting to recognize it. Mm-hmm. And as I'm thinking more and more about, like, how marketing scales, you guys should do, like, a fractional CMO thing or something like that. I've thought about this. 'Cause I, I f- I feel like- I want to ... I, dude, I feel like it is, like, how you drive your leads- is like the thing.It's like that's it. Yeah. The people... What, what companies need now is to know what levers to pull, not necessarily- Yeah ... just someone to do one thing. And, and granted, you need that as well. Like, you need someone who's just a specialist in inside of like SEO or Google Ads or whatever that is to get the most out of a set channel.Mm. But, um, I'm trying to figure that out. But my... I think my point is, like, marketing is not just marketing anymore. So the... On this like dash- So I started off with a dashboard. Yeah. So, like, marketing is like, "Hey, we have to get the lead," but like, hey, we just spent a l- kind of a lot of time talking about speed to lead in like call center, and I think what's happening is call center and marketing are becoming the same thing.Mm-hmm. At least for us, where it's like this is really the same problem. Yeah. As far as, like, paid leads. Now, obviously there's marketing like org- there's organic, and there's, like, branded, and those are different things. Yeah. Like, totally received. But, uh, I think it becomes the same, and I think it becomes much more about the system of marketing and, like, how it ties into call center and are we booking and, like...I mean, call center's really just like an extension of marketing. Yeah. Yeah. Is... I, I guess that, that's like my half- Yeah ... flush take, but I, I'm thinking more and more about it the deeper those two get because the scorecard is becoming the same. Yeah. Like, as I'm building this, like, dashboard for call center, well, I'm like, well, the dashboard for call center's really the dashboard for marketing and vice versa, and you can't build one without the other- Mm-hmmbecause one gets lead, the other's books leads, and, like, it's kinda the same thing. Yeah. Yeah. We're, we're rethink- I'm I feel like I'm kinda rebuilding my entire delivery system right now with the way things are changing. Um, but I'm rethinking everything, and I really want to figure out how I can be that fractional CMO, uh, for companies.Um- I think that'd be interesting ... but, uh, there's, there's a couple problems. 'Cause I think it, it's just deeper. You, like, you, you have to be inside the call center. Like, you have to participate- Oh, yeah ... in the book. Well, it, it's, it's, it's lead to job appointments. Yeah. Or alternatively- And going into that call centerlaunch a call center or, like, booking system that books the leads for the client I have thought about talking to Quick Staffers. Jack, if you're first hearing this, like- Yeah ... like, like, "Hey, what if we owned that entire, like, I drive leads to you- There's a, there's a- ... you book appointments. We just take a cut" thingsomebody out there that does that for meta ads, I think. That's what I want to do for meta ads. Yeah, I think that makes sense. Um, but, like, how, how ... So one of the things I would have to get really good at is training because it is- Yes ... very difficult to have somebody come in. Like, I can. I can come into your system and g- look at your whole thing and go like, "Yo, you don't actually have a leads problem.You have a sales problem." Mm-hmm. "Don't spend more money on marketing agencies. Go f- go, go get your sales done right." Yeah. "You don't have a process." You know, I, I can do that, but how do I train somebody to do that? Yeah. And it re- it, it, it's, it is simple. If this, then that. Yeah. But that's a, that's a training problem.No, it totally is. And so, like, it's something if I can figure out, I think is good. Yeah. It'll work. Um- But I think it'll, it'll come with a lot more trust from clients. Mm-hmm. Um, so I think what it'll end up being is, like, clients that are already working with us, getting into them- Yeah, yeah ... uh, building those relationships.I have a handful. I'm going to a couple of the clients this- Yeah ... uh, this fall to start talking to them about, like, "Hey, how can we be- Mm-hmm ... more?" You know? Like, "How do we help you more, correct?" Well, I think you almost need to, 'cause I think, like, to my point, call center and marketing are becoming the same thing, and if, like, if I had a CMO, call center would report- Yeahto CMO. Yeah. And I think it... Call center used to be an operations function, and I actually don't think it is anymore. No. Like, I think it's a marketing func- I'm, I'm, again, still getting my head around this, but, like, the more we're, like, deploying and building and, like, driving improvement in call center and, like, booking in general, it's clear that this is now marketing.And, and I think when you think about it like marketing, that's when, back to our speed to lead, and, like, you have to r- you know, like, reshape your call center and, like, have them be about low intent leads. That's a marketing function. Yeah. Like, you ha- you get your marketing team built around low intent leads and booking them and obsessed over that lead.That is marketing. That's not, like, operations. Yeah. So I, I, yeah, I think, I think the industry's currently thinking about call centers wrong. Yeah. I agree. Yeah. John's, John's hot take for, uh, what is today? Thursday? The entire industry is wrong. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, that's the, that's the thumbnail. The whole industry's wrong.And they, they're gonna probably use that now. Hey, I mean- Yeah ... industries have gotten things wrong before. Yeah. Like, maybe this is another thing that we come to- Well, I think it's just, like, the next adaptation. Not even wrong, I just think it's the next adaptation. Yeah. It's like call center's no longer operations.Call center is, like, very clearly marketing. Yeah, I, I would even potentially call dispatch, like, a marketing function. Yeah. Like, are we routing the lead to the re- correct source? Like... Yeah. I think- Well, I mean, speed to lead is one thing, but, like, speed to marketing is gonna be another thing, right? Like, your ability- Mm-hmmto go out and test new things. Yes. I've got a handful of clients that are on my, like, we'll call them the specialist. Um- Like, they just move faster ... they move fast. Yeah. And I can test things. Yes. So they've kinda given me permission to, like, just try something. Yeah. And so I'll go out there, I'll see something on, on Reddit or X as a good idea.Yeah. I'll just, like, implement it- Just run it ... and just see if that works. Hell yeah. And that's fun. Mm-hmm. That's fun for me. Um, we'll test it and we'll see how it works, and if it works, we implement it into their marketing system. Yeah. So, um, I think, like, you know, talk about the state of home s- you know, home service marketing, it's becoming, like, how do you get creative?Yes. Like, how do you find new opportunities that no one else is doing right now because you can move so fast? Yeah. Yeah, that is interesting. What, what else do we have on 2026 marketing? I feel like we've covered some good stuff here. Um We didn't talk much AI outside of like it's crazy how things are changing.Um, or what's working in 2026. We started talking about Facebook. Uh, Google isn't the whole strategy anymore. Yeah, Google isn't the whole strategy anymore, which we've talked about Times it Daniel- Times it ... make sure you're trimming this part. No, no, keep this in. We're good. I'll just Mr. Close then. Uh- Would you feel like, or AI?I don't know what I would say specifically in that in AI. I don't either. We could talk about how, like, you have to have all your data centralized. Yeah, I think we've already done... Yeah. Yeah. Well, bring it, bring it home, I guess. So- Daniel- I guess we know now ... we're back in. Yeah. We now know that we have to be fully meta ads and nothing else.And you gotta be fast. Yeah. Yeah, it is interesting. Um, it'll be fun to watch, uh, it'll be fun to watch next year. Yeah. I'm actually pretty excited about the Google thing now. Yeah. 'Cause I do think that'll be... I mean, you probably have, like, a year or two. Like, if you start pushing faster, I mean, most of the...I don't know, I don't know what percentage of companies are actively running, um, like, PPC verse LSA verse whatever. I mean, we met somebody in the workshop today, $12 million business, they've never turned on LSA, and I'm like, "Oh my God." I know. I know. Peter. It's my favorite. Peter. Peter Conyout, bro. Yeah, I know.I've told him that, like, 10 times. I'm like, "Everyone, throw a pair to Pete." Hey, hey, but he built that business without it. That's crazy. I know. That's hard mode. Respect. That, that is amazing. Respect. I mean, he, he has this huge lever. But it'll be interesting, 'cause I feel like if you can jump... And that's why we're moving faster on the transition from LSA to Google Ads.It's like, okay, how can we be ready when everyone six months from now is still, like, figuring it out? Yeah. 'Cause we wanna be able to move fast. Yeah. So yeah. I don't know, though. Yeah. I have no idea what it's gonna look like. No one does. Yeah. You know? We're all guessing. Well, we're gonna go look at Jesse's right after this.But there, there's some, so there's some things that we all know. Yeah. Google's gonna make its money. Google will make money. They're, they're gonna be fine. We're all really confident in that. Yeah. Yeah. And they're gonna figure it out. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so, like, I would keep betting on that. Yeah. AI is going to be the future.Yes. Uh, reviews are gonna matter more than- Yeah ... almost anything else. Yeah. So, like, if you wanna future-proof yourself, continue to get reviews. Yeah. Yeah. Uh, and as many as possible. Um, so yeah, like, those are the things that we know. Um- Yeah ... keep pushing into those, and then start, start getting that testing mindset.I'm willing to spend X amount of dollars to see what- Yeah, add more channels- ... works ... 'cause you gotta defeat your elephant curve, and then figure out, like, more markets, more service lines. But one of the two has to happen. Yeah. It's the only way to, like, win over a long period of time. Yeah. Yeah. Awesome.Marketing 2026. Let's go. Thanks, everybody, for tuning in. Make sure you like and sub.
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