In this episode of Owned and Operated, we’re diving into real-world strategies for sourcing and securing small business acquisitions. From outreach to private equity firms to using freelancers for off-market deals, we break down how acquisition entrepreneurs are getting creative and staying competitive.
We explore how personal branding can help attract brokers, how to craft a buyer persona that actually stands out, and how Chris Barr is navigating live negotiations for niche businesses—including pool services and a high-end art framing company.
Whether you're just starting your acquisition journey or already mid-process, this episode is packed with practical insights for sourcing deals and building a compelling presence in the marketplace.
🔹 In This Episode, We Cover:
Strategies for off-market deal sourcing using freelancers
How personal branding attracts brokers and deal flow
The value of a credible buyer persona in competitive markets
Updates on two live deals: pool services and art framing
How Chris is approaching broker and seller interactions
🌐 More resources
👤 Hosted by:
Jack Carr
👤 Guest:
Chris Barr
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213 Transcript
Jack Carr: [00:00:00] Awesome guys. You've made it to episode three of the Chris Barr saga. So in episode one, we learned who he is and his most perfect business. In episode two, we talked about him diving into pool businesses and going through initial models, as well as some strategies on how to get new leads. In episode three, we're gonna do a deep dive into personal branding so that you look really good for the broker, as well as looking great for the buyer.
Stick around and find out.
Welcome back to Jack Acquisitions. We got Chris Barr on today for some awesome updates. Super excited to have you, Chris. I'm, I'm glad you're feeling better, man.
Chris Barr: Yeah, it was a, it was a rocky start to the week there, but, um, yeah, as I mentioned, man, just in time for Easter, we are, we are up from the dead. Ha ha ha.
Jack Carr: Risen.
Chris Barr: I have risen.
Jack Carr: Sweet man. So it's been a few weeks, we've, we've [00:01:00] given it some time since the last time we talked. Um, what's, what's going on in your world? What's the update? Have you, did you end up talking to some private equity groups? How. How have you been, uh, have you been doing?
Chris Barr: Yeah, I appreciate you asking.
Um, I know last time we spoke we really kind of focused on some sourcing efforts and kind of how to get some originations cooking. Um, so I did reach out to some micro PE firms. Again, I'm hunting in such a small geographic area that there wasn't a ton of Pickens. But the one group I did talk to was super amicable, a really warm relationship there.
They're definitely hunting through their pile to see if they're passing anything small. That might be good for me. Um, likewise, they want me to keep bigger opportunities in mind for potential partnership, um, with them, uh, if I find anything really appealing that I just feel like is, is a little bit above, uh, my purchase price range.
So yeah, it was a fantastic suggestion. So completely a win-win.
Jack Carr: Yeah. At the end of the day, if they, you find something, it's a [00:02:00] win for you and a win for them because in the long run you remember their name and potentially sell it back to them. Mm-hmm. But if you find something too big, then. They're looking at you to say, Hey, we also need an operator in this.
We're looking for a great operator. Nobody's going around and doing this. And so you're, you're showing, you're showing up when you know no one else is. So that's a great job. I mean, I'm, I'm pumped. I'm glad that's working for you. Just answer the phone. It's one of those phrases that's always easier said than done.
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So, so you called around, talked to us, some private equity firms, just through the idea out there. What else have you been up to?
Chris Barr: Um, you know, one of the things we talked about was using some B2B cold calling. Um. Mechanisms mm-hmm. To try to help put me directly in touch with some small businesses in the area.
Um, I, I like the idea on the surface, it sounded great. Sounded like something I really wanted to engage. And you mentioned some performance based, um, you know, mechanisms where, you know, you pay on commission rather than upfront. Wasn't able to really find much in that regard. Most did have some upfront costs included.
Um. Best deal we could find was really more than we were willing to pay. We're running a pretty slim small, you know, search fund to overhear. So incurring some extra costs when especially it's really just taken legwork outta my end was juice. Wasn't worth the squeeze. But, um, I did engage, uh, some freelancers on [00:04:00] Upwork to help create, uh, a big.
List of CPAs and bookkeepers in my area to reach out to for some off market deals. Um, they crushed that assignment. So that's been going well. Haven't gotten any deals from those CPAs yet, but using them also to create a similar list. I. For pressure washers and painters where they can build the list out.
I'll do the cold calling, which I think I'd actually prefer to do myself anyways. So, so
Jack Carr: that's, I mean, those are great points. I, I wanna stop you there 'cause, 'cause we, I just had this really cool interview with a, a good buddy of mine named, his name's Elia. He's out in Denver and he, I was asking him about this exact thing.
I said, Hey, why aren't you, you, you know, why aren't, 'cause I met him through, he cold called me in my business. I said, why aren't you? Using this third party, he goes, Jack, it just doesn't work. The same as if I call, yeah, I call a hundred, 200, 300 people. I get one. Yes or two yeses. But those yeses are worth so much more in the long term than the potential no, from someone else calling.[00:05:00]
And nowadays with all the AI and the garbage, we get that that same day. I had three messages in my email inbox in that time that we recorded, they were like, Hey, are you willing to sell your business? And is the most regurgitated AI garbage? And so I think that there's a push or, or for people who are willing to push and do cold calling themselves by the list and just do it.
Um. So go so much farther and especially your friendly guy, like it would work amazing. Yeah. So that's the first part. Part is I think that's on the right track. Love done. The second part is you should add wealth managers to your search list. Not just you have CPAs, you have all those guys, wealth managers.
Are a big win because they win when you win, right? Yeah. So if somebody has a business, most of their assets are tied up in that business itself, right? One, two, $3 million. They're working with a financial planner or wealth manager, whatever, um, you wanna [00:06:00] call them. And so when they sell, then that money moves to the wealth manager.
Yeah. And so it, it's this really good synergy where if you can work with wealth managers who kind of play in the field or dabble in the field and niche down a little bit. Um, it's a win. It's not my personal strategy. I have only talked to one or two wealth managers and they've offered me businesses a little bit outta my region though it was down in like Pulaski.
So a little bit too far for us to drive. But gray, you know, it's a, still a good strategy is, is go to wealth management, see if you can get ahold of them and, um. Go from there.
Chris Barr: Yeah. I also, on top of CPAs and bookkeepers, I included estate attorneys. Um, just because if somebody is retiring and looking at that next chapter, um, they're probably engaging in estate attorney.
Um, so, uh, yeah, throwing them in the next, I think
Jack Carr: this is, well, this is so important and I'm, I'm so glad that you understand this one because like I said, we're all working together on this very right. But two. The having to explain this to [00:07:00] new buyers is, is, is a very difficult thing for me. 'cause they only want to go the broker out, broker, broker, broker, broker.
And I and I, I have to tell them, Hey, you're not gonna get the best deal, but that's okay. Even that not where my broker issues come into play, my broker issues come into play, is that it's such a fragmented market that even in your small region, if you were to call, you know, the top 50 brokers. You're not, and, and for your specific niche, you are not even going to have, uh, maybe I'll zoom out a little bit.
If you called the top 50 brokers in the US and said, Hey, I want an HVAC deal, you'd probably, the top 50 brokers would probably own 10% of the market. Or 5% of the market. Like they wouldn't even have the vast majority of the HVAC market in, in lower middle market. It's just, it's so fragmented. There's so many people that are letting their buddies or their real estate agent, commercial real estate agent, no offense, but just this random guy, sell their business for them.[00:08:00]
And it's so fragmented that you could, you could talk to a thousand brokers and you still wouldn't have most of the market covered. Yeah. And so it's not a great lead source in the long run. It's a. It's a okay lead source, but there's better ones
Chris Barr: and cards on the table. Uh, to be totally transparent, that's probably the area where I've been weakest in the past couple, you know, weeks since our last conversation.
I, I'm just get such broker burnout. Um, I feel like I have my, I. Handful that I talked to. And that's, and that's great. And I still see, you know, some good results and, and listings that are worth looking at coming in from them. But I feel like I reach out to brokers, give the same old spiels, sometimes they follow up, sometimes they don't.
Good ones, bad ones, I still get put on the same MLS lists and get access to the same exact deals. And so it, it really, it was, it's a great upfront push and it's something that I do need to, you know. Tighten the screws a little bit, uh, of staying on top of. But I, I really feel like the momentum of finding higher [00:09:00] quality deals and stuff that's really in the, you know, select niche that I'm looking at, is just gonna come from more off market avenues.
Again, the bookkeepers, direct calling, et cetera. Mm-hmm. Um, so yeah, I'm really starting to see the, the value in that now that I'm in about month four of the search.
Jack Carr: Yeah, that, that makes a lot of sense. Um, I. And so update. In terms of last time we talked, you were moving in a direction on a pool cleaning business.
What is that currently look like? Did you end up going to LOI? Where are you at with that one?
Chris Barr: You know, I, I know that being decisive and getting something. Moving forward or off the pile is key. That being said, um, this one is really gonna been put on the back burner and I'm actually really comfortable with that.
There's not a lot of com competition on it, which really does not bode well for it. I do have hesitancies, um, about how their reporting income, uh, and I know that [00:10:00] it's common practice, but um, as we talked about last time, it does create some red flags. Mm-hmm. Um, it's not as vintage as I'd like. It's only been around five years really.
Ideally hunt for something around 10 years, um, or older than that. So, you know, it, it's, it's there now. No one else is moving on it. I, I, I, I can if I want to. There's been some traction with other deals that have been a, a lot more appealing, so I've kind of diverted my attention there. Um, so I'm kind of fine where that one's hanging out for right now.
So that's kinda link some grace
Jack Carr: on that front. Um, I mean, respectfully, I, you know, I'm, I'm never one to tell someone that, um. Their deal is bad and they shouldn't do it because I'm not the one who's doing it. Yeah, but the, the bi pool business you were looking at, based on the numbers, it's probably a good thing you're passing, um, in the long run just because it's, it's, it's a buyer strap.
Once again, it's then that's why there's no, there's no [00:11:00] additional Yes. Um, eyes on it. Okay. So for everyone out there, I'm gonna talk about it 'cause I'm not under. PG or uh, NDA, and I'm not gonna talk about it exactly because I don't want anybody to look it up and get Chris in trouble either. But essentially it was a $1 million purchase price and almost a two hundred and seventy, two hundred eighty in sd.
So realistically, it's running at a what? Four? Four x multiple on a young pool business with. You know, just, it probably doesn't, it's a lot of construction base, which in my mind takes it down, even though it's in the pool industry. So different industries still project based, construction based, not reoccurring revenue, not service revenue.
And so it makes it really hard, especially because you're running. It was three categories of business. So you're running three separate businesses in that Love that if, if it was one business in construction doing that or one [00:12:00] business in as a route doing that, like you have a really good singular business.
Right? That's what I say. The same thing. People who do hvac, if you have an HVAC company that you really like and it's selling, but it does 300,000 in service, it does 300,000 in commercial and then does 300,000 in new construction like. Those are three separate $300,000 businesses. Like that's a tiny, tiny business.
Whereas it looks like a million dollar business. It's not, it's three separate small businesses. And so, you know, it's probably a good thing. I, I like that other deal. The other pool deal you brought, if it, like, if you find something like that again, that was significantly better. It was singular route based.
It wasn't as much in revenue side, but um, in the long term. Right. Like I said, it was a. It had systems in place that would've allowed it. You to jump in and grow it.
Chris Barr: Yeah. And um, you know, and revenue wise, it wasn't too far off. Um, uh, [00:13:00] sorry, not revenue wise, but as far as SDE went, they ran a much, much tighter operation.
Much more aggressive, multiple, um, I don't think I'm violating any NDA stuff 'cause this was all told me prior to even signing NDA, but it was owned by. You know, some billionaire, and I have no idea who, uh, which is why I'm calling it Scrooge, MCD Ducks, you know, pool service deal. Um, and you know, and again, you know, maybe that guy makes his money by selling off, you know, half a million dollar businesses and taking advantage of guys like me.
And I, I don't know. I tend to not think so. Um, that, and anybody who's operating at that high level isn't cutting corners and they're not cheating on their tax returns to try to save nickels and dimes there. They're not, they're not classifying labor as 10 99 when it should be W2 to avoid a payroll tax.
Um, so a lot cleaner numbers. Again, it was singular in that it was a route, um, and then some repair you as far as servicing, you know, shock in the pool and then some, uh, repairs as well. So it was a lot more streamlined. Um. [00:14:00] Yeah. You know, it was a much more appealing deal. We are, we do have finger on the trigger with LOI.
I'm planning on sending it after this call. I just wanted to see if any notes or any helpful tips on Lois came up from this call before actually sending it. Um, but we're actually offering, uh, you know, a little bit over purchase price 'cause they are a contract right now. On, on which one? The second pool business
Jack Carr: one.
Okay. Yeah. That's good. Yeah. Yeah. So I, I like that deal. Yeah. Um, for, for others, those listening, it, it was significantly less in terms of purchase price. It was same SDE and the revenue was less, but. As expected, um, you know, it's one of those smaller businesses that it is a job to some extent. He's gonna come, go in and have to operate it and have to hire pool guys and learn pool chem and, you know, do the whole thing.
Um, but, you know, I, I love pool routes. I think they're super scalable and extreme. You can get really, really efficient. And then with a little bit of branding, um. I mean, I think there's a lot of opportunity for the [00:15:00] disruption there.
Chris Barr: Yeah. And you know, that was kind of why this guy created this pool route was to really clear the market and you just kind of never got around to doing it.
But as far as scaling goes, I see these, it was one of the, when I first started looking, it was one of the types of businesses I saw get listed all the time, but a pool route here, a pool route there. So once you operate it and you've got your arms around it and you've been doing it to, you know, pull out a bit more capital.
Buy another 200 pools on a route and just grow that way through acquisition, um, seemed like a pretty solid model for scaling
Jack Carr: it. Yeah, it definitely is. I, I mean, the obvious downside, right, is the reason that there's so many small. Pool routes is because Chuck and Truck can go and take their, you know, 1996, I don't even know if this is the right model to make, but they could take an S 10 Chevy, an old S 10 Chevy, throw some stuff in the back, some chemical chlorine, uh, with some basic knowledge of how to clean pools.
And they can, you can run a nice little route. Yeah. Go knock on doors. [00:16:00] Um, there, there are tricks and tips like, hey. You gotta partner with moving companies to suggest on the move in, Hey, you're moving into this house. See you have a pool, you know this, this is this guy's card. I would give him a call. He's an amazing pool guy.
And so there, there's a lot of different tricks that are outside of the box on those ones because at the end of the day, um, it's a very competitive market. There's lots of small fragmentation. Uh, but that can also offer opportunity when. Buying more of them, right? Mm-hmm. You can buy a 30,000, $40,000 pool route, um, and
Chris Barr: just keep going, keep growing like that.
Yep. Especially once you've got the branding figured out, you know? Yeah. It makes scaling pretty easy. Yeah, I think like a very similar,
Jack Carr: uh, one that I've really liked recently is the pest control. They've been doing very similar, small trucks, lots of branding, knocking on doors, door to door. My, my wife just fell for it, so we had now have a different pest control agent because she's telling me it was some young [00:17:00] kid came knocking on the door and da da da.
It gave me this thing and I said, oh my gosh, you, you fell for it. You fell for it. You know, we
Chris Barr: thought about it for a bit and I don't know if it's like. In my real estate acquisition background coming to haunt me. But I just think of like phase ones and environmentals and stuff like that. And I think of pest control and liability for, for chemicals, toxins, stuff like that.
Mm-hmm. And that kind of gave me the heebie-jeebies. Um, but you know, again, I, I know people who it's worked great for, so definitely not knocking it. Um, but yeah, like some of the other verticals we're, we're currently looking into.
Jack Carr: Sweet. So you're gonna offer. LOI as a backup position a little bit higher.
Mm-hmm. Than the current position. Yeah. Just in the hopes that if something goes wrong, they back out, that they come to you. Mm-hmm.
Chris Barr: Yep. And we were going to, we're again trying to put in a pretty competitive offer to. You know, if anything goes wrong with their current deal, they know that they've got a great one.
You know, right there to backfill it [00:18:00] and to make it extra competitive, we were gonna try to advertise a super, super short due diligence period. You know, um, I was talking to my pops seven days and I'm like, I. Uh, a little, little bit too aggressive, and especially with, especially with tariffs right now and, and all of what might be coming down the pipeline and how that can impact things.
Um, definitely did not wanna shorten, dd up that tight. So gave him a, a standard kind of 45. Usually I would maybe negotiate, trying to negotiate for 60, but. 45. And the thing is, we are taking a run at this one because we're assuming that it's gonna be very, very streamlined. Very, very simple numbers. Mm-hmm.
Um, and so we have a lower tolerance for red flags on this deal 'cause we're kind of taking a run at it, um, with the expectation of. Clean and simple numbers. So, um, and are you,
Jack Carr: are you working, where did you get your LOI template from? Are you working with a group? Did you buy it? What, talk to me a little bit about that.
Chris Barr: Yeah. Um, and this is, you know, [00:19:00] it's kind of nice to go through a trial run. Our broker that we're working with, he's actually been really, really solid to work with so far. And he said, I, I really uniquely craft these Lois, you know, per the deal. Um, I don't really go off a template. They're all pretty individualized and there was a lot more narrative.
In the LOI that I'm, I'm used to seeing, it's pretty black and white with a lot of the real estate transactions I've seen in the past. So, you know, descriptors that would, seemed out of place to me. But again, this is my first LOI round in a small business acquisition transaction so far. Mm-hmm. So, again, I, I, you know, don't have much of a base comparison other than my real estate background.
Jack Carr: Yeah, I mean, I would definitely, I mean, it, it's fairly, I guess irrelevant because as long as you have the backout clause and, and you have some of the key clauses, it doesn't, doesn't create too much of a headache 'cause they aren't as stringent as, uh, real estate transactions. But I was gonna say, I think you might have a leg up on a lot of people going into this situation because.
[00:20:00] What we see a lot of times, like I was joking earlier, is, uh, a lot of times the broker ends up being a, a commercial real estate person that has moved outta commercial real estate and then they come into these, these transactions and they act like it's commercial real estate, and then they have a bunch of buyers that go, no, we're not putting down anything into escrow.
We're not gonna, you know, for money. Although, right. Talk about a way to really prove that you are a, um. A real buyer and that you're really into this is putting some money up. I mean, don't get me wrong, be very careful in what kind of escrow, third party escrow account and all that kind of stuff. Um, but like that, that is a great way to push yourself to the head of the pack.
Uh, if you are dealing with an ex real estate, uh, commercial real estate broker who is now brokering deals. But I mean, the deal generally, like the deal templates aren't, this, aren't too difficult. Different in the sense that there is still a due diligence period. You're stating the terms and what you're expecting to buy on that.
This is not [00:21:00] binding, but this is, Hey, we aren't going to, um, we, we, if you have to retrade, you have to retrade it. Uh, this there, the binding parts are like, Hey, we are not gonna shut, you're not gonna shop this deal around while I am, uh, under contract with you. You're gonna provide all documentation that we need to go through due diligence.
Um, but. I would be careful getting a i, I, it's probably fine, but I definitely feel icky about you taking in a LOI from that broker. Because they're not on your team. Right? They, their goal is to sell the business. They're not, their goal is not to help out.
Chris Barr: Oh, it's, it's my broker, not the seller. Oh, okay.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. Okay. My, my specific buyer broker, so he, he's on my side of the fence. Yeah, yeah. No, I would,
Jack Carr: I would not be using, I I I was, I was treading lightly there, but No,
Chris Barr: no, I appreciate it. Yeah. Very kind of you, but no, I would, I would've slapped me for that one if I was in your shoes, so, um, yeah, no, it, it's my broker.
And again, [00:22:00] uh. While I'm, I'm used not used to some of the nuances that come along with these transactions. There is a lot of parallels, obviously, tying it up and taking off the market key non-binding and having an, you know, escape hatch key. You know, all, all the basics are there. Um, but one thing you mentioned was RET trades, and I think that's the.
That's the biggest difference maker between these lois and what I've done in commercial real estate. 'cause retrade is like a full letter word, like nobody ever wants to. Retrade anything. It's, it's very, very icky. These are much more loosey goosey. It's more of a framework for how to move the conversation forward than it is a negotiated deal that you're just doing, you know, your checks and inspections and scrutinization on this is a, everything's kind of loosey goosey and is, is pretty contingent on everything else.
I'm like, what the hell are we even agreeing to here if everything's contingent on everything? Um, but [00:23:00] it really does work to my favor as a buyer. You know, I can set up an LOI as a multiple and then allow my own calculations of their SDE to speak for themselves. We can have argue, we can have an argument about what their SDE is.
Um, but we're, I, I've agreed that it's going to be based on. Some kind of multiple. So that flexibility is, is new to me, but I see that there's a lot of advantages to myself as a buyer with that flexibility. Perfect.
Jack Carr: Yeah, no, that all makes sense. Yeah. I'm, I'm going through currently a, my last LOI sent out and, um, yeah, I mean really it's, it's a lot of it's just dictating who's going to be doing what and let that, there's gonna be a non-compete that, um.
Uh, they, you agree that, uh, you 60 day due diligence period there, everybody's party's gonna bear responsibility for their own expenses. Like very basic stuff. I guess the craziest part that I have is, um, my, uh, creative financing all goes in there. How I'm gonna [00:24:00] buy the deal that you're gonna buy it on seven a or cash or seller's note what that's gonna look like, at what percentages.
Mm-hmm. So, pretty standard stuff. Um, I would highly recommend, I mean, you, you're working with your broker once again. Okay. You only need to get one or two of them, um, to really understand what they look like. And then from there, it's rehashing old Lois. Make sense? Yeah. But it, for everyone listening, if you don't have, um, a professional one from a broker and or a.
Law group, go get a basic one, pay the three, $400, it's worth it. Um, just to make sure you're covered. Um, but yeah, that, that's neat. So, so you're gonna put a, a secondary position, LOI on that. And then have you been, have you been looking at anything else? I.
Chris Barr: Yeah. So we've talked about that art framing business for a while now.
Yeah. Um, and not home
Jack Carr: service, but I love it.
Chris Barr: I know, I know. Again, still service related and especially here in, you know, west Palm Beach where you have Palm Beach Island right across the way and it's billionaires Row [00:25:00] over there and people get very, very high-end artwork framed all the time. Um. It, it seems like a, a pretty on-brand business for this market, um, in the service sector.
And again, service is, is really where I'm, I'm putting the premium at. Uh, and it's interesting, you know, she wasn't wanting to entertain me as a buyer. I'm not, you know, tried not to get offended, but, uh,
Jack Carr: how, how did you get in touch though, originally? Where did that start at?
Chris Barr: So, um, it's actually how I ended up.
You know, using the same broker that I'm working on that LOI with now, I was talking with a different broker. He was kind of my number one guy and he was a super nice dude, but I saw this art framing business. I'm like, you know, I'd love some more information. And he just like couldn't get me an N or couldn't get me a CIM.
We fill out the NDA, but I'm like, it was weeks. I'm like, yo, like can I ever get a look at this thing? He's like, ah, the broker won't get back to me. And then I, you know, struck up a relationship with this other broker. Um, he's like, yeah, I just showed that one a couple weeks ago. Let me put you [00:26:00] in touch. Um, so he was able to send it right over.
I was interested. He said, you know, the seller has been extremely particular on the buyer. She's choose it, you know, that they're choosing, uh, does not, you know, wants to have someone that has. Prior framing experience, ideally, which I don't know where, find that. Yeah. But was not wanting someone that resembled a PE firm, didn't want someone who's gonna views it, view this as a transaction.
Um, someone who's truly going to be an operator. I'm like, I'm your guy. And um, you know, as far as that skills gap go, that's where I really saw an opportunity. 'cause I'm like, her and I are on the exact same page again. I'm looking at. Painting, pressure washing opposed to things like hvac, which is your world, because there I plan on being a true blue operator and there is a technical skills gap with, you know, hvac, plumbing, something like that.
Um, framing. I do feel confident that I can learn. It does. I mean, I. [00:27:00] Respect that. It's a, it's a trait. There's some complexities there and nuance, I get it. But I can learn that. And she needs someone who's willing to learn and that she can teach this craft too, because the odds of her finding a ready to go framing so small is so small.
So small. So we're in the same boat here. So let's, let's listen to reason. So she didn't want to entertain me as a, as a buyer. She said, you have no framing experience. I, I tried to milk. What little I could. Yeah. I was like, surveillance guy in the Marine Corps. I took tons of pictures. That's my art experie.
And she's like, no, no, not at all. Yeah. So finally got her back to the table. Um, and it seems to be moving in the right direct. Well, so how did you, how'd you get her back to the table? I think this is important. Mm-hmm. So what did you do? Um, kind of got creative and said, all right, like, what, what would inspire her?
And I said. Listen, if we have a negotiated deal on the table, I'm willing to work under you, an apprentice for six months free of charge to you. I'll continue to get paid out of the same, you know, fund I'm getting paid out of [00:28:00] right now. Um, and for six months I will learn directly under you, learn everything I can possibly learn about the, you know, framing business.
I'll be flexible if to keep you on as consultant if you wanna Yeah. Be hands off, that's fine. But if I can pay you for additional consulting work down the road. Um, happy to do that. She's gonna continue to own the real estate, which she owns now. So, um, that makes sense
Jack Carr: why she's so picky about her buyers 'cause that she's gonna try to do a lease back and she wants that person to understand that they need to stay in that location to make it work in the long term.
Same with pe. Yeah. I don't want, she doesn't want shutting down shop and then her having to worry about, Hey, where am I gonna get a new tenant from?
Chris Barr: And it's twofold 'cause it's her ba you know, she said it's, it's partially that she's like, a, I wouldn't want, you know, my tenant to go dark on me B, that also means that like my baby went away.
So it's a really kind of twofold reasoning for her. So I, you know, so close, definitely up. Uh, you know, I said we can show a balance sheet that more than guarantees a five year lease, um, in its entirety. So I was really the [00:29:00] combo of those two things that. Brought her back to the table. I
Jack Carr: mean, it makes sense 'cause you, you literally put blood, sweat, and tears into these companies for years and years and years.
You want to know that it goes to someone who's going to take care of it. Um, I mean, I think it's a little shortsighted that she was worried about. That, but you know, each to each their own. And, uh, so wait, how did you, when you were getting back to her to try and she's told you no, the broker told you no, I'm sure you were going through brokers.
They kept saying, no, we're not going to, she doesn't wanna do this deal with you. What did you do? Did you send like a direct letter? Did you just send a really nice email? Did you call her? Like what was the medium in which you got in touch?
Chris Barr: The medium was honestly broker to broker. Um, I really didn't have to get that crafty with the medium at all.
It was really just the terms and the willingness, I think, to again, do that six months apprenticeship free of charge to her. Um, but I, I just called my broker. I'm like, Hey, go holler at her broker. Let 'em know I'm willing to do this, see if she can come back to the table. [00:30:00] Mm-hmm. Um, and he said, okay, listen, she's willing to talk to you.
We set up a call. She was not on the first call. It was just her broker. So I spoke to her broker. Personally heard it from, you know, the horse's mouth. Then he relayed that to her and then we all opt on Zoom and, you know, went forward from there.
Jack Carr: And that went well After talking to her. She wants to continue forward.
Oh yeah. We're doing, we're doing an in person tour. Uh, you know, I'm getting boots on the ground, so, uh,
Chris Barr: yeah. Yeah.
Jack Carr: Excited that quite learn more about framing businesses then now I'm gonna go out there and see it. I've, I've heard about it through the grapevine, like really good businesses, high end art.
Mm-hmm. Like you said, you're in a very affluent area, so it works really well. So interesting. You know, I,
Chris Barr: I, it's not, it doesn't have a huge bandwidth for scaling, you know, there's definitely a limited ceiling there, but they've been doing zero marketing for, I. A while now. I mean, they've been around since 88 and have done, they've been mostly word of mouth.
Um, so, and I remember we did talk [00:31:00] about stop. It's good to have some systems in there, but like social, it's like catnip for Instagram. I mean, it's like, it's very, very marketable on social media and I feel like there's a lot of cool campaigns that you can do. With art, art framing before and afters, stuff like that.
Jack Carr: That's, that's true. That's a very good point, is yes, that I'd much rather see that business, have the systems in place where you just have to turn the knob and it raises. Uh, but that being said, it is a very, right. Somebody fixing an HVAC system or I guess pulling a toilet, not overly artistic in the sense of, uh, like videography, but you know.
Just putting together the art frame and cutting and slicing and putting the backing and gluing it. And I think with, with gorgeous art pieces, by the way, inside that frame that you're utilizing, so you get a little bit of that stolen, uh, you know, the stolen ethos there from the art itself. Yeah, that's, that'll be really interesting.
I'm, I'm [00:32:00] gonna be. I'm gonna be interested to see what the numbers in the business are really. 'cause that's, that's gonna be, that's gonna be interesting in general. Um, I, I've never looked at an art, art framing business before, per se.
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Chris Barr: Yeah. The margins are still really pretty good and she treats her labor extremely well. They're full-time and they have benefits packages and they go 50 50 on, you know, insurance, stuff like that. Mm-hmm. So the fact that she's spending so much on labor but the margins still look great on it, um, is pretty dang encouraging.
And what does she do in the business? Um, you know, she's pretty involved. Uh, she does a lot of customer interaction. Um, she says people feel special when they get to talk to the owner and they get to talk to the boss. And especially when you're dealing with high net worth individuals like would be, um, they do like to have FaceTime with the owner, but I'm a relationship person.
I say, that's kind of fun. Yeah, that's that. I do not mind that at all. Yeah. She will, you know, put hands on and actually do some frame construction. Not a ton. Um, but a lot of oversight, a lot of pricing, um, things like that. She does do her own books, but [00:34:00] there is enough of a buffer, an SD where I can hire a bookkeeper and that's not a massive line item, so, um, that's not, yeah, yeah.
You
Jack Carr: can go overseas or even local and, and you'll be fine with that. Um, and, and so it. Here's my always, my question is great lifestyle business, it sounds like, right? She works in the business, she's ready to retire, which is what I'm guessing she's getting out for. You get to meet cool people, you get to do cool things, but very low scalability other than raising prices, uh, because you are seen as a premium product, uh, because your social media presence shows you as a premium product.
Uh, more so. I mean, I'm thinking like tattoo artist for example. A tattoo artist is a wonderful. Person, but they, they only get more money based on how great their art is and how well they're able to showcase and market that to then be able to charge more. Right. Um, and so somewhat similar I would imagine in this industry is, you know, putting a piece of art in a frame [00:35:00] is definitely important and it costs a certain amount, but it's really like the labor and then.
I guess the cost of the frame, but there's no scalability in the long run, especially if it's a locale to geography. Mm-hmm. Um, so what, what do you, what do you think about, what are you thinking in those terms?
Chris Barr: That's valid and again, the fact that they haven't done a lot of marketing, I, growth and scalability are, are two different things.
But again, there is. We have room to, I think, grow the revenue here on, on some level, but I, I a hundred percent with you, there is a ceiling that you know, I will be hitting. And I would love to get your thoughts on this because not that scaling, not the growth is not something that every, you know, potential entrepreneur should not be thinking about.
It is, but at the end of the day, it's not something. That's been the highest priority to me. Um, something that is steady, something that is stable, something that is [00:36:00] gonna make an income level where I'm able to feed my family and, you know, not be overly stressed about income. You know, if it, if it does that, do I need to grow it?
I'm a simple man with simple needs and maybe I'm in naive here, or maybe I'm self-aware. I don't know. You tell me. But if it said if it hits my income needs and is pretty steady, Eddy. I don't, I don't need to be Billy big shit and, and grow this thing to an empire. Um, you know.
Jack Carr: Yeah, I mean, that's a, that's a great question.
When searching for a business, it's, there are some wonderful lifestyle businesses out there that, um, that have no potential for growth whatsoever. I don't think that this is necessarily one of those, but there's definitely businesses out there that are like that. And people live really, really happy, good lifestyles on them.
Um, specifically like I think I tow. Talked a few weeks back about mortgage bro, or not mortgage, uh, lumber broker. And this lumber broker. He had his few contracts and he had his, you know, few people he worked with. And he went [00:37:00] to to work at 10:00 PM went to the gym at one and then went home at three. Like the guy worked almost no hours and then answered a few phone calls.
Made $700,000 a year, personally out of the million dollars a year that the company generated because it was just him, him and an assistant. So. With, with those kind of businesses, it really depends on who you are and what you're looking for. Um, 'cause even internally, like between John and I, John Wilson and I, um, John wants to grow a hundred million dollar business.
I, I don't, I have zero want to, to make a hundred million dollar empire. I'm, I'm more of that. I, I always say I'm. I'm the the first class friend who flies first class to go visit you. Uh, he's the private jet friend. He wants the private jet to go visit you. I'm like, I, I just want to go in first class. I'll, I'll even, even economy.
I'll accept as long as I can get a window seat. So that, that's what I'm looking for. And I think that that's important to, to. Understand about [00:38:00] yourself really early on because you can find a great business, um, like this one. I think there's probably scaling options here. Um, I don't think it's a hundred million dollar opportunity outside of maybe some kind of strange franchising.
Um, but
Chris Barr: yeah, you know, and not to get, you know, super philosophical on your show or anything like that. But I mean, if you look at life satisfaction, it's the delta between what you have and what you want. And, you know, wanting more is kind of a, in, in my mind, it's a, you're never gonna win that game. There's always room to want more.
Um, and trying to keep that ha what you have up to speed with what you want feels kinda like a losing game at the end of the day. My whole approach is want less. You know, and not to say that I, I'm settling or not say that I'm, I'm setting my sites too low. But again, having the private jet, having one of the yachts out in Palm Beach Harbor, like, I don't need that.
You know, that's not, that's not where my happiness is. Yeah. Um, being able to sneak in the sneaky surf session at. You know, a [00:39:00] 7:00 AM is, is really more of a premium. I was
Jack Carr: gonna say the most of the US owners, I think in the beginning, which you're looking for some of your time back and, and when I say that people go, oh, time back, like, I'm gonna work less.
The answer is no. You're gonna work more, you're gonna work seven days a week all day, every day, but you get to choose when you get your little time off. Mm-hmm. And so for me, it's like every morning. I make my kids breakfast, and then I'm home for dinner. So it's like those two windows I'm working after they go to sleep and I'm working usually before they wake up.
But those two windows is like, I don't have to go in the office till 10. I can do this podcast at 2 42 in the afternoon. Yeah. And not worry about it. But that's, that's where the winds are, I think. And, uh, you hit the nail in the head. But that being said, sounds like a good business. I'm excited to hear more.
Um, I'm excited to see some more too. Yeah. And then I'm gonna go down a rabbit hole here and, and try to find, uh. Uh, the, the opportunity in art framing in general and see what, where it can go from there. Yeah.
Chris Barr: Yeah. No, again, [00:40:00] uh, I'm excited. Um, you know, I'm still fairly fresh in it. We just really had like, you know, our first, you know, hunky dory meeting where we're, we're all kinda on the same page and wanting to move forward.
I'm gonna put boots on the ground, so excited to report back, let you know what I, what I've learned. Um, I gotta do plenty of my own research on this sector as well, because it was definitely one that I did not see help. I, yeah,
Jack Carr: that's like one of the ones you don't expect. And then three, four years down the road you're like, oh.
I guess I do this now.
Chris Barr: Yeah, it's just kind of one of those things. Yeah. That the universe has a way. Um, and I remember it was similar with the, um, oh gosh, it was the arboretum or the. It was a greenhouse or land, not landscaping, but they did. Um, there was a nursery, that was it, outta Greenville. Yeah. Mm-hmm.
Um, same thing. I don't think he was really planning on owning a nursery, but again, the universe just has, has a way of putting something in your lap. So. Excited that,
Jack Carr: that's the fun part though, right? It's, yeah, at the end of the day, you [00:41:00] know, it's a choose your own journey style book here. And, uh, you get to choose whatever you want.
And if that's art framing, you're gonna learn art framing and you're gonna be the best dang art framer there is. And then in a few years, uh, you're like it or you won't, you move on. So, yeah. Yeah. Cool stuff. Do you have, uh, any questions that, that came up that you're like, Hey, I needed to ask Jack that.
What should I have done here or anything? You know, um,
Chris Barr: I, I. Ended up bringing up, it wasn't on my initial notes, but that broker burnout. Um, again, kind of feeling like, you know, the new brokers I talked to, I can just get put on the same MLS lists. I feel like I look at my broker, you know, database. I'm like, I should plug through some of these.
But I'm like, what's the point again? I'm just, you know, they're gonna not, they're gonna smile. Maybe they send a follow up email, maybe they don't. At the end of the day, I'm just gonna get put in front of all the same deals I've been seeing anyway, so is it really worth? The opportunity cost there. Yeah, probably because that's what they do.
And, and being a, [00:42:00] being a name in mind for more brokers in the area can only be a good thing. Um, but just want to know if you had any thoughts on, on how to handle the broker burnout.
Jack Carr: Yeah, so I think a big portion of broker burnout and, and I don't know how you, you think about this, um, or if you ever think about this.
'cause I didn't, I kind of fell into it naturally, but. My online presence is HVAC jack, right? It's the HVAC jack, jack acquisitions HVAC guy. I'm always wearing hvac. Um, and so when I'm online talking about my wins and creating this version of myself online, I, I make sure that all my wins are forefront. On my social media accounts, but I think that's important.
I think that a branding yourself in some way, sense or form, um, actually starts to help the broker process because I'm thinking, right, let's pretend that we're brokers for a second. You get hundreds of calls, [00:43:00] half of them are time wasters. They don't know that Chris is not a time waster. They don't know he is not a tire kicker.
Um. You say, Hey, like I'm looking for this size business. I'm looking for pressure washing and painting. Let me know, and then that in one ear out the other. But if you were to be, and I'm just super being hypothetical here. Sure. But if you were to be, um, Chris the painter, paint acquirer or something, you know, online and that was your, your presence and then they Google you, they say, okay, who's this Chris guy who does painting?
Um. And they, they Google you and then boom, it's like, there's your LinkedIn, Chris, the paint guy, uh, the hits on Instagram, Chris, the paint guy, t Twitter's Chris, the paint guy, and then all of a sudden, right, you've built this. I'm the paint guy. I'm gonna buy a paint business here. And now they're like, they, they feel a lot more, um.
Yeah, there's a lot more trust in that interaction, I think, than their general [00:44:00] interactions. There's a lot more trust, but also it's a memorable interaction for them. So my suggestion in this kind of broker burnout is I think that a lot of times we are focused, don't get me wrong, there's a lot of bad brokers.
There's some good brokers. I introduced you to one. But yeah, there's a lot of bad, bad brokers that don't know what they're doing. They're, you know, they're. Doing this because they, they saw something a long time ago. They thought, oh, I could do that. And then they just deals sit and poor owners sit with deals that aren't selling.
But on the other side, like I think it's our job as buyers to help drive the story. And that's, if you're leaving with anything today, it's like drive the story of who you are and. What you're looking for, because the more you and the better you're able to do that, the more memorable and, um, easy it [00:45:00] is for a broker to sell you something, right?
So a lot of times the, the other side to this is the, the op, the exact opposite is going, Hey, I want to buy a $1 million business and or purchase price of 1.2 million, and I was guilty of this purchase price 1.2 home service and SDE above 200. Like. Well, I, that's not, there's no me memorable thing. Who are you?
Yeah. Who are you? Like, yeah, I, I get that. But if you, if you do a personalized story about how, you know, you're in the military and your surveillance made you this perfect person to buy an art business and. Our art framing business and that, you know, this just extremely personalized about who you are and why you're a great operator and why you're gonna succeed and, and how you have the funds and how you have the backing with real estate.
Boom. Like, perfect. You can close, they're happy with you. They know that. And so that, that's my takeaway is with, with broker [00:46:00] burnout is we get caught up sometimes in how bad they are versus focusing on how can we make, what can we control? It's like I can control making my story better and my outreach better with personalization.
Um, and then that's how you win.
Chris Barr: Yeah. Honestly, I did not see the solution to that being branding. Um, that's, that's really not where my, my head was gonna take me. But I, I, no, I love where your head's at and, you know, funny, you know, quick story to close out. Um, in regards to that branding, one of the things that the art framing owner did not, um.
One of the reasons they didn't want to entertain me is their broker took a look at my website and I really tried to like craft my bio. Mm-hmm. Be very, very personal. Like again, small town guys, small business. Yep. Identity. I know exactly where you're going with this, you know, and they took a look at it and they're like, oh, this looks like a mid PE shop.
And I'm like, mm-hmm. I'm flattered that we, we erred on the side of professionalism. I'm, I'm flattered that you think we're that legit, but like, no, we're lo we're [00:47:00] local yos here, man. Like, wait, so. Realizing that I did not brand as accurately as I initially thought I did, um, was a little bit of a wake up call.
So I think it's, it's probably time for me to revisit that a bit. Mm-hmm. Um, but yeah, I really didn't. I, I always kinda thought the website was something that like no one would go to. Like, I'm gonna do it just to say that I have it. But, um, I'm starting to get the sense that, you know, branding myself as a buyer, um, is, is more important than I initially thought.
Jack Carr: I, I had this conversation at s and Bash with a quite a few people who are in the space. Um, by the way, shout out s and Bash. Super fun. Good people. We had a great time, um, talking about acquisitions and, and going through a lot of this stuff. And we had this exact conversation was about, I did it too, you know, to try and drive ethos in the space.
We, we built this, this website that is, I think yours is KC Acquisitions, got, mine was something ventures and. We're trying to actually emulate these, uh, PE [00:48:00] firms and these venture capital firms and like their websites so that we can grab some of that ethos. But actually the opposite is true is most of the buyers don't want private equity or they don't want, uh, uh, Peter Loman had a great statistic from Axios.
Axios is a platform where you can mm-hmm, uh, look at deals kinda like biz by sell, but a little better. Um, more curated and he said he scraped all the data and the number one thing that stuck out was a personalized message. And then kind of along those same lines, not all owners want private equity. Not all of them want industry tuck-ins.
Not all of them want this, that more often than not it actually led that they wanted a good operator. Yeah. Who cared about the business and who sent them a personal note to say, hey. I wanna buy and continue legacy, which is wild to me. 'cause I thought the opposite.
Chris Barr: Well, and I, and it's weird 'cause that's like really what I try to create the branding to, you know, convey the message of is like, hey, I [00:49:00] am, I am not private equity.
I am just a, I'm a, I'm a guy, I'm an operator. I'm gonna care about your business. Again, we, we come from a small business background. Um, yeah, we're a family shop. Like it was, it was. Kind of branded or I, I thought it was branded to be very, very personal, but, um, I don't know what I gotta do, put on a pair of overalls and have a big piece of wheat coming outta my mouth or, or, you know, be, be more small town.
We'll, we'll break it
Jack Carr: down next episode. We, we will go through your website so everyone on YouTube can see it and go, ah, Chris is the worst website. Just shred you.
Chris Barr: Yeah, just absolutely roast me. I'm totally good with it. So sweet. Awesome. Well, thanks so much, Jack. Really appreciate it. Yeah, well thank you
Jack Carr: everybody for listening.
Um, leave us five stars wherever you listen. Head on over to owned and operated.com to get some more Jack acquisitions opened and operated, the workshops that's, uh, owned and operated pro, all of our wonderful, uh, things that we offer over there. And yeah, leave us five stars so we can keep doing this. And, uh, thank [00:50:00] y'all.
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