In this episode of Owned and Operated, John Wilson is joined by Jack Carr (Jackquisitions) to break down the 4 steps to train your sales team and raise revenue fast.
From building a repeatable process to setting metrics, John and Jack share how to treat sales like an order of operations—diagnosing problems step by step so your team can fix weaknesses and improve call over call. They discuss why consistency beats ad-hoc training, how to gamify scoreboards so techs know exactly where they stand, and why “inspect what you expect” is the ultimate accountability layer.
John shares how his $30M HVAC, plumbing & electric company used sales training to drive 50% year-over-year growth, while Jack explains how bringing on a salesperson as his third hire fueled 100% growth three years in a row.
Together, they unpack:
- Step 1 – Have a process: Scripts, SOPs, and the scientific method of diagnosing sales gaps
- Step 2 – Be consistent: Regular training, skills practice, peer feedback, and role play
- Step 3 – Install metrics: Scoreboards, targets, gamification, and making numbers visible daily
- Step 4 – Inspect what you expect: Ride-alongs, monitoring calls, coaching, and accountability loops
🎙️ Host
John Wilson → https://x.com/wilsoncompanies
🎙️ Guest
Jack Carr → https://x.com/TheHVACjack
💼 Special Thanks to AppleTree Business Services!
One of the most common and expensive mistakes in acquisitions is not getting serious about accounting. Whether you’re buying a business or running one, you need the right financial partner. That’s why we’ve partnered with AppleTree Business Services — a one-stop shop fluent in tools like ServiceTitan and Housecall Pro.
👉 Listeners get a free tax & financial review, plus 10% off quality of earnings when buying a business.
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💼 Shoutout to Quick Staffers LLC
Need trained HVAC & plumbing CSRs at a fraction of the cost? Quick Staffers LLC specializes in placing top-tier global talent with the best SOPs and scripts.
🔥 Get $1,000 off your first placement here
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More Ways To Connect with O&O
John Wilson, CEO of Wilson Companies
Jack Carr, CEO of Rapid HVAC
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John Wilson: [00:00:00] Because you can build a big business with not much sales process. We have to know where each call messed up so that we can fix that step so that on the next call will be better.
Jack Carr: Don't try to rebuild the entire thing from scratch.
John Wilson: Yeah,
Jack Carr: people have done it before.
John Wilson: You need to know the steps 'cause there's an order of operations and when you go to diagnose the problem, you need to know where to look.
Jack Carr: Yeah. So how is your sales training kind of a basic
John Wilson: Yeah, for like metrics, you set targets and you measure against those targets. So this is not something that you wait until you're big to do. This is how you get big.
Welcome back to owned and Operated. I am your host, John Wilson. I run a $30 million plumbing HVAC in electric business in Ohio, and here on Owned and Operated, we talk about how to build your home service business. Today I'm joined by Jack Carr, the host of Jack Acquisitions and Jack runs Rapid Response Plumbing, heating, and Cooling in Nashville.
Today we're talking about the four steps on how to train your sales [00:01:00] team so that you can raise revenue fast. Let's dive in. When we first added sales, uh, as a function, our revenue just started absolutely blowing through the roof. The first year that we did it was a 50% revenue growth year. So nailing these four steps, super important.
Uh, and I know that you've had a similar story with your sales.
Jack Carr: Yeah. We brought on a sales person as our third hire. Mm-hmm. So it was me in the field. Yeah. Another person in the field. Uh, and, and I was as answering phones and then a salesperson. Yeah. Amazing. And that was the driver that has pushed us to over a hundred percent year over year for the last three years in growth.
John Wilson: Awesome. Alright, so today we're talking about the four steps. We're talking, uh, you know, we're talking about the four steps on how to build and train a sales team so that we can raise revenue fast. Yeah. So step number one, have a process.
Jack Carr: One of the most common and expensive mistakes that I see in acquisitions in the home service space.
Is not getting serious about accounting. Whether you're buying a [00:02:00] business or you're already running one, you need the right financial partner to save you time, money, and headaches. That's why we partnered with AppleTree Business Services. They are a one stop shop that'll help you get through the due diligence process, but then they'll partner with you after to help you out with payroll and bookkeeping and taxes.
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Just head on over to AppleTree business.com, talk to Patrick, click the link, let them know. Jack sends you and they will take care of you. I think. Yeah. Yeah. Have a process. Have some SOPs. Start working on scripts. Mm-hmm. Because there's so much. There and there's so many things that you can sell or avenues to go through that actually locking down some scripts that [00:03:00] work for not only the industry, right?
It's not only a sales script, but it's also script that matches your business. Mm-hmm. Like who are you as a business and how does your story and how does your sales person. Or people. Yeah. How are they able to push revenue with those items? Yeah. Right. Because a big part of sales is do, do they trust you?
Mm-hmm. Who are you and why you, well, will you trust us? This is our story, now let's push the sale.
John Wilson: Yeah. I think, do you agree with all that? The way that I think about a process, yeah. Is I'm not a very good. Like, rah, rah, let's go do the thing, guy. I'm a good, like, let's build a, you know, let's make this a discipline.
And when I think about a sales process, I think about it as the scientific method. How do we test, analyze, repeat, like how do we, uh, reduce the o the number of [00:04:00] variables. On each and every test to the least amount of changes so that we can tweak different parts of it. So that's how I think of sales process.
Yeah.
So if I'm running. A sales process and we're big proponents of Nexar. Uh, we run their sales process, uh, when we were like coming up in the industry. We use certain path and they've got a great process. Uh, I think the biggest lesson is use a process. It like we're happy with nexar, certain path's good, but like use a process, you know, how are you asking questions?
How are you thinking about closing objections? How are you like bringing up price early in the call, like Yeah, usually, you know, this system calls X and the idea, again, we, we wanna reduce the overall amount of variables because if every single call is unique, then how can we get better? We have to know where each call messed up so that we can fix that step so that on the next call will be better.
This is scientific method
Jack Carr: and even more so than that, um. [00:05:00] People have done it before. Like you saying, Nexstar has the the book, right? Certain paths has the book. So don't try to rebuild the entire thing from scratch. Yeah. Like go out there. Scrape a process from that's already been built that already is out there.
The scripts are already out there for the most part. Uh, even if you're stealing from other industries, uh, there's
John Wilson: hugely valuable. I mean, we've interviewed massively valuable roofers. We've mm-hmm. You know, we're plumbing, hvac, and electric. And, uh, it's, it's almost comical because you can build a big business with not much sales process.
Now you can't build any business in a bathroom model company without a sales process. You need to be locked in on a process. Yeah. 'cause nobody needs a bathroom model. Yep. They want it. People need a furnace. So you don't need to be that good at selling. It's like, it's literally selling what? Hot chocolate to Eskimos.
Yeah. Like it's not that complicated. Someone needs your thing and you're the guy offering it. [00:06:00] Mm-hmm. Not, not complicated. If you want your business to grow and explode, you need to process. 'cause you need to be able to run a hundred appointments. Roughly all the same.
Jack Carr: Yeah. It's interesting 'cause you focus on the process of like from when the call comes in all the way through, which I think is the very, you know, 32,000 foot level of like, well how do you reduce the variables?
How is tech watching
John Wilson: walk? Yeah. Yeah. Where they, and how can we get better? Mm-hmm If we don't know each of the 10 steps to, to work on those steps fully. I think that
Jack Carr: there's a distinction, what I'm trying to get at between one and two. And what, 'cause it's interesting where you start, you start on like, Hey, this is the process of what the technician should be doing.
He gets there. Yeah. He puts his bag down here. He has the conversation here. He parks his car here. Mm-hmm. And you're right, like that is the sales process at the same time where I focus and it's, it's really interesting to see like the difference in mindset. Yeah. Is our focus is like, what is the type of conversation, like how is that technician having the script?
[00:07:00] Yeah. I mean, I do think that, I think that you're better at the entire process. We are. Uh, focused on like, okay. So you had this, you had the discussion mm-hmm. At the, the ther the same thermostat, but like what did you talk about? Yeah. How did you say these? What are your, what were your conversations? So we focus heavily on the actual sales script itself.
Yeah. Like, well, how did you offer that? Did you say? I didn't know Rich Jordan. Um, who's at top of mind right now has a great, uh, posting that he, he's talked about a lot, which he was saying, if I to were to find anything. Do you want to know about it? Yeah. On my full evaluation? Yeah. Or something along those lines.
It's like we use those same kind of scripts to make sure that we are planting the seeds from that first phone call all the way through to the end. And I think our growth is actually in what we're not doing, which is, hey, like let's actually lock down these other parts. Yeah.
John Wilson: What's steps? So the way I'm gonna, you know, scientific method is one way to describe it.
I'm gonna, uh, now describe it in a way that's relevant to our industry. [00:08:00] Order of operations. Yep. If I'm an HVAC service tech and there is a furnace broken. I was trained from day one. Mm-hmm. On the order of operations,
Jack Carr: there are steps. There is an order of operation. Yeah. So yeah, when
John Wilson: the thermostat calls for heat, there are then six or seven steps after for that furnace to fire and create heat.
Mm-hmm. And if I'm diagnosing a broken furnace. What I'm going to do is I'm gonna follow the order of operations. Yeah, okay. I adjusted the thermostat and nothing happened. Okay. Problems at the thermostat. Problems at step one. So I think that's the beauty of like a step-by-step process is because when we're diagnosing low sales, when we're diagnosing the problem, we can identify which part of the problem do we need to be focusing on.
Yeah. So, hey. My conversion rate sucks. Alright, awesome. So we're probably on the explore step. We're probably on like open-ended questions we're probably talking about like, did you give enough options? Did you ask lifestyle? Did [00:09:00] you explore the home? If the objection is priced too high. Okay. Well did again, did you give options?
Did you talk about financing? Like we can diagnose the sale. Yeah. The same way we can diagnose a water. I think
Jack Carr: that makes sense. 'cause that's when you would, you'd find out where the issue is and then you would work on fix issue. Yeah. And the fix would,
John Wilson: you can go get a new gas valve, you can go replace the batteries in thermostat.
If
Jack Carr: you start on scripting, you're actually a step ahead for a potential problem That's not. Even where the actual issue's at.
John Wilson: Right.
Jack Carr: That's a
John Wilson: good
Jack Carr: point.
John Wilson: Yep. So you, you need to know the steps 'cause there's an order of operations and when you go to diagnose the problem, you need to know where to look. Are you tired of chasing reviews and watching competitors outrank you on Google?
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And the best part set up is free. And [00:10:00] your first month is on the house. Book your demo in the description below. Big reputation.ai. Alright, number two, be consistent in your sales training. So. Yes. How? How? Yeah.
Jack Carr: Yes. Yeah. Oh my gosh. We, especially specifically from a tech technician point of view, not, not so much from our comfort advisor, but from a technician point of view, we used to be terrible at this.
Yeah. And 'cause once you have four techs right? It is extremely difficult Yes. To pull all four techs in on a Friday afternoon. Yeah. Or Friday morning when the schedule's full. Yeah. Like how do you make sure that that continues to happen? Mm-hmm. But at some point along the way, the. The misses just got too big.
John Wilson: Yeah.
Jack Carr: And it, it was because, and they're missing on silly things that
John Wilson: Yeah.
Jack Carr: We've trained prior, but a year ago, six months ago, three months ago, and now we're dealing with it again. Yeah. And I remember the day when that happened, I said, we are not missing. Mm-hmm. The, the three calls that we miss in the morning that we do this training mm-hmm.
Are [00:11:00] worth less. Than them running for two weeks without a training.
John Wilson: Yeah, a hundred percent.
Jack Carr: So a
John Wilson: hundred percent
Jack Carr: definitely
John Wilson: making sure that be consistent. You're consistent, same day, same time. On top of that, what do you do inside there? Yeah. So I would, you know, I'll give some examples of what we do, but people can take this wherever they want.
Oh. So
we do skills practice and skills Practice is role play. So, uh, someone's a salesperson, someone's a customer. The customer tries to, you know. Throw up every objection in the world. Yeah. Ah, prices, blah. Um, 'cause it's practice. Like we want to practice before we're live. Doctors aren't doing their first ever like, cut on a human right.
A live human that needs their help. So, uh, you have to do skills practice so that when you are alive and in the field and like this counts, you don't trip up. You remember the steps 'cause you've tried it. So do skills practice. It's uncomfortable at first. It's weird for everybody. Just do it. It push through.
Yeah, just push through. You [00:12:00] get literally literal after the two for Yeah. You do it twice and, and nobody gives a shit anymore. Yeah. Uh, and it's great review former quotes. So pull up yesterday's jobs. Hey, here's one that went really great. Like, what did you do? What did you do? Great. Hey everyone. Let's give him feedback, like, how could he have done better?
Maybe he did 90. Well, ninety's awesome, but like, could we have gotten 95? Where did, where did we miss?
Jack Carr: Yeah.
John Wilson: Uh, let's do a quote. That was bad. Hey, we didn't close this one. Why do you think that was? Let's talk about it. How do we think we could have done better? What was the dynamics? What step is the, you know, where did we lose the customer?
What step, uh, how do we help diagnose so we can do skills practice?
Jack Carr: There's some cool stuff too now that that's out there. Yeah. That will actually, you can run there. Uh, you can run stuff through AI and it'll actually give you some really nice bullet points on where it believes that. It, you, your, either your call center could do better mm-hmm.
Because call center's part of sales. Yeah. It's the whole process. It's the whole stack. Yeah. Uh, and then I know that we don't utilize it, but like the, the rilla and the, [00:13:00] the listening, uh, services of the world will give you some really, really good feedback on what they did well Yeah. And what they didn't do well.
Yeah. But yeah, I, I agree. Is making sure that you are doing those trainings consistently. It's been huge for us. Like I cannot stress that enough is as that small operator. I know. Yeah. It was hard and it still hurts today 'cause we run now two to three a week in plumbing. 'cause plumbing was our problem child for a while.
Mm-hmm. It's doing way better now.
John Wilson: Mm-hmm.
Jack Carr: We are still at two. Yep. And we run in the off season, we run two in HVAC. Yep. In the on season we run one. Yeah. Uh, because we cut, uh, we condense a little bit. Yeah, that makes sense. Still though. Full sales be
John Wilson: consistent. Yeah. Same day, same time. Ideally you're doing some skills practice, you're opening up invoices, you're reviewing actual performance, and you're allowing for peer mentorship.
Yep.
Uh, that all, all those things usually help. Number three, install metrics and measure them frequently or make them very [00:14:00] available.
Mm-hmm.
So one of the first things that usually happens when people come into our shop. Other companies, technicians, whatever. There are scorecards all over the wall. Yep.
There's like 10. So you walk in and it's like plumbing sales, this guy, like number one. Uh, and it just continues to go at HVAC drains, whatever. We have the install side, we have the company wide scorecard. How are we doing for the month? How are we doing for the year? Are we pacing? Uh, people need to know the score.
Yeah. And they need to know what victory looks like. If you as an owner can't tell them, Hey, your goal is x. Then that's not good enough. Like you can't just tell someone, if someone says, Hey, like what's my target? Like what's my win for the day? And you're like more, well, that's not a very like helpful or productive Yeah.
Conversation. Mm-hmm. There needs to be a target. There needs to be a win. People need to chase something. So for each position we have metrics. Hey, here's the average closing. That we expect for your position. Here's the [00:15:00] average ticket we expect for your position. Here's the number of calls we expect.
Here's the overall performance in a month that we expect. Here's the average number of options.
Jack Carr: Lemme ask you a question. How has that changed? Because I've seen change within your business in the last three years. Yeah. How do you view that change from eight? Yeah. It's definitely changed in the
John Wilson: last three years
Jack Carr: from a smaller shop.
Yeah. As you're growing to being able to provide those metrics, so like we do it. Yeah. To to give the very basic. Yeah. And what anybody out there can do is during those yeah. Sales training meetings, like we have everybody's numbers up and we go over numbers, and then once those meetings are over, that same dashboard sits up Yeah.
On the screen all day for the next six days until the next sales training comes along. And so we all know each other's numbers at all points in time. Mm-hmm. Uh, super basic. Right. Uh, and then they all individually, because we're a much smaller group, are able to know those things. Yeah. So how is your sales training from kind of a basic
John Wilson: Yeah.
For like metrics? Yeah. I, I, I'll save like, [00:16:00] first off, having measurements and understanding our numbers here, like setting the metrics and measuring them frequently. That is how we went from small to big.
Jack Carr: Yeah.
John Wilson: Like so, so this is not something that you wait until you're big to do. This is how you get big.
Yeah. You set targets and you measure against those targets hourly, daily, by minute, like whatever it is. But when I say measure them frequently, it's not like once a month, like no. I can look at my phone. I probably will in the next few minutes, look at my phone and see what we're at for today. Like it's a compulsion.
Uh, so we're gonna measure 'em frequently, uh, depending on the team. We have been broadcasting scores. We've been like on Slack. We'll send it across the board. We go over it in sales trainings, it's on every tv. Like the guys will just sit there and like wait for their team to come up. What place am I in? Uh, we just brought on a new software to help like gamify it.
Now there's contests. Yeah, there's badges. There's who sold the most Walker heaters, who sold the most furnaces? So we have all of that. So we're working on like a [00:17:00] game version of the same thing.
Jack Carr: Um, because it, I mean, the technicians, it's a game. This is a game. Yeah.
John Wilson: This is just a game. And, and this is, you know, we just did a video on like hiring a players and hiring the best and like.
The best think that this is a game.
Mm-hmm.
And if they don't think it's a game, then that means they're not, like they're probably the lowest on the scoreboard and you probably need to be thinking about coaching now.
Jack Carr: So number three is making sure that metrics are installing
John Wilson: metrics
Jack Carr: in front of measuring them frequently.
John Wilson: Yeah. And making them very available. Like they should be able to open up their phone any minute, midnight, 6:00 AM, whatever, and know what their score is right now. And they should also know. Pretty easily where they rank in the team. Are they the top, top guy? Should know he's the top guy.
Jack Carr: Yeah.
John Wilson: Last guy should know.
He's the last guy. And everyone in between should know exactly where they stand.
Jack Carr: What do you say to people who claim? Oh, because we've gotten the feedback before. Yeah. Oh, and I've actually heard you get the feedback before in person. Yeah. Well, doesn't that drive, uh, you know, some people to be [00:18:00] sad 'cause they're at the bottom.
Mm-hmm. And your response always makes me very happy. Good. Yeah. Yeah. But that's, I think the last time I asked you this question, you said, well, it should, yeah. It should make them sad. Like Yeah. Like that's a them problem.
John Wilson: Yeah. That is a them problem. Like we've given them the, well, we've done the other steps.
Yeah.
We have a process. We've invested in that process. We're consistent with our sales training. We deliver skills practice, we work on objections. We're reviewing former quotes. They're getting peer feedback like we've done all the Now if we didn't do that and I was just being a turd, sure. But we are giving them all of the tools to succeed.
Yeah. And if they still are not succeeding, that is no longer John. Yeah. That is that individual that is choosing to not succeed. Anyone can succeed in a business that is selling things that someone literally needs, you know? I don't know. Yeah. We're not selling Lamborghinis. We're selling toilets. Yeah.
Yeah,
Jack Carr: you're replacing broken [00:19:00] toilets.
John Wilson: Yeah, we're replacing, yeah. Like you need it, my guy.
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John Wilson: four. Number four. Inspect what you expect. We've done all this stuff. We've run a [00:20:00] process. We've been consistent in our sales training. We've installed metrics. Now we need to monitor performance. Here's how we're gonna do it.
We're gonna measure weekly against their KPIs, like we set the KPIs, but are we measuring it? And are we talking about it? Are we talking with their manager? Are we talking directly with them? Here's how we can help. Are we doing ridealongs? Are we, is someone riding along with them once a month and like, Hey, I saw this.
You sort of like, you know, you could have tightened up this part of the process. Yeah. You skipped too fast to hear, are we doing that? Are we using a tool like craft where it can listen to the, like the call along, um, along with. It can listen to the call live and then a manager can later review the call and identify like, Hey, this is where the call went.
Well, this is where the call went bad. Like this is where you lost the customer. So are, are we monitoring the performance and are we inspecting what we expect?
Jack Carr: That's a great inspect what you expect. Yeah. No, I [00:21:00] love that. Yeah. Follow up accountability. Mm-hmm. That's, it's that simple. Yeah. And then we've, we've built
John Wilson: the tools.
Yep. We've trained them on those tools often. We've given them a scorecard to show them how well they're using those tools. And now we as leaders need to be watching them as they use those tools. Are they using them correctly? Are they using them at all? Are they running the process the way we intended?
Jack Carr: I think there's a 4.5 here too.
I think if, if there is recoverability in this individual mm-hmm. Uh, whatever position they may be. Mm-hmm. I think there's a coaching step after, right? Mm-hmm. Uh, if. If you were trying to build a great sales team, not everybody is going to do good at all points. So after you inspect what you expect, you do those ride-alongs
John Wilson: well, you're just back to step one.
So like, Hey, we're doing these ride-alongs, we're inspecting it, and like your process kind of sucks. So like, let's run the process. Let's put you back into consistent sales training. Yeah. Maybe we up your sales training by one day. Maybe we do one-on-one sales training. So
Jack Carr: I think that is the 4.5 though.
It's like that that is just piece Yeah. The repeat is, is a valuable piece to be [00:22:00] able to like, Hey. Mm-hmm. Let's get you back. Because I don't want, I don't want people to feel like we're coming out of this, like, you run this and then Yes, yes. You're out. If you can get it, it's like, hey, this is, yeah. We wanna coach up.
This is a process in itself to coach these people up, uh, because we really do have high expectations. Mm-hmm. Or at least I have high expectations on my team. Yeah. So to get better and to do better. Like it is a coaching process. Yeah.
John Wilson: Yeah. And I think what this does it like, it allows us to di it's the system of or order of operations.
Yeah. It allows us to diagnose, so we know we have a baseline of like we're, we should be roughly doing the same thing. We should be turning on thermostat. The next step happens, right? Because we have a sales process, it's six whatevers. We've been consistent on talking about that process, on training, on that process.
They understand what they're like, how many and what they're held to be held accountable for. So it helps us identify like which part is messed up.
Jack Carr: Yeah. And ironically, it helps you internally figure out which part of your training process is messed up. Well, a [00:23:00] hundred percent, right? Like this is this.
Yeah. Hey, order of operations. Everyone is if, well, this, well everyone is bad, but my training is bad, except two needs to reevaluate how we're doing that. An
John Wilson: example, uh. Like an acute example for us mm-hmm. Is our plumbing department. We're getting a ton of that. Job's too expensive pushback. Yeah. And we know that because we're training, we have metrics and we're monitoring via ride-alongs.
So looks like, hey, we had 30, that price is a little too high for me is last week. What do we do? Like, where is that in? Okay, well, how many of them brought up financing? Turns out not a lot.
Jack Carr: Yeah.
John Wilson: How many of them, what was their average number of options, which is part of the process? Two. Okay. Well, we kind of expect three to four.
Mm-hmm. So there alone, like. If I give less people options and the only options I give are expensive. Sure. We're expensive. They have a right to have that objection.
Yeah.
And if I don't offer them easy ways to affordably pay for a service, they're right to think that we're too expensive. Yeah. But we do do those two [00:24:00] things.
We do have options. We do have financing. So where did our sales process break? So, yeah, th this is the, uh, that's how you multiply sales effort across a greater swath of people. If it's just one person, great. But if it's 50, how do we think of this as a process where we can, Hey, this is weird. We have a bunch of people struggling with this sales objection for price too high.
Where are we messing up in our training? Yeah. Which step do we need to work on as a group? 'cause we're clearly not getting it to help everybody improve.
Jack Carr: I think that also guides the training itself. Like what hundred percent are we focusing on? Well, let's focus on objections. Yeah. Let's focus on we're specifically financing.
Yeah. Specifically
John Wilson: that objection. Like, hey, if, if that's most of our objections last week, role play. That's why we're, we're skills practicing that. Yeah. So it really does it, the inspect what you expect helps drive the first couple steps. Yeah.
Jack Carr: Uh, last question, which is sort of off topic, but like, do you focus, uh, a lot of your trainings if you [00:25:00] don't have specific items or failures in, in your systems?
Do you focus those trainings, uh, to be. I guess, uh, I'm thinking in HVACs particularly. Mm-hmm. But do you focus them to be, uh, seasonal specific? Like do you have a winter training and then a summer training or a spring or a fall training for maintenances? Yeah,
John Wilson: we, yeah, we have mechanical, like technical training and we have like, uh, sales or operations training.
Yeah. So we do both. Okay, sweet. Yep. Awesome. Love it. Yep. So that is how you train your sales team and you raise revenue fast. Great. Like
Jack Carr: and sub.
John Wilson: If you like what you heard, make sure you like and sub and check out owned and operated.com.
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