Owned and Operated #94 - From Startup to Success: Johnny Robinson's Information-Based Enterprise

When Johnny Met John.
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Our discussion with Johnny Robinson aka SqueegeeGod continues in this episode as he talks about his experiences launching a new business, selling his previous venture, and switching to an information-based enterprise. We learn the difficulties of running a program-style company, addressing problems such as growing advertising expenses and putting in place an accelerator program to increase customer lifetime value. Johnny also shares a remarkable success story on how he played a key role in kick starting over 1500 cleaning companies! Get the full scope of Johnny’s journey here:  Listen to the first episode with Johnny, tune in to the flashback, and be sure to watch the first part of this episode for the complete experience.

Episode Hosts: 🎤
John Wilson: @WilsonCompanies on Twitter
Jack Carr: @TheHVACJack on Twitter

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John Wilson, CEO of Wilson Companies

Jack Carr, CEO of Rapid HVAC

Owned and Operated Episode #94 Transcript

I'm John Wilson. Welcome to Owned and Operated. Twice a week, we talk about home service businesses, and if you're a home service entrepreneur, then this is going to be the show for you. We talk about our own business in residential plumbing, HVAC, and electric, and we also talk about business models that we just find interesting.

Let's get into it.

John Wilson: If you're a home service entrepreneur that's just starting out, or is early on in the journey, and you haven't broken the five million dollar revenue mark, we've got an event for you. This spring in Cleveland, March 19th to the 21st, we're hosting an event at my office. It's going to be awesome. Honestly, some of the most impactful visits of my career have been visits to companies that were larger than we were, that we could take lessons from, and see how they're doing stuff.

Like get a behind the scenes look, how are they structuring warehouse? How are they thinking about call center? Can I talk to their managers? Can I understand what their KPIs are? We're going to dive into all that stuff. We are here to help people get above 5 million in revenue. So join us in Akron, Ohio, March 19th to the 21st for a breaking 5 million event.

Love to see you there. Details are owned and operated dot com.

This is part two of our conversation with Johnny Robinson. Johnny came on a couple years ago to the show. We saw that he had done a ton in the last few years. He sold the business he originally talked to us about. He launched another business and now he's in a, information style business, which I find just absolutely fascinating, as a customer of a few of these for our business.

So this is a great episode and I'm super pumped for Johnny's journey.

All right. So now Launched a business, launched a second one, and now you're running like a program style business. Which I think I've said this before, I talked about this a little bit with Aaron Harper when we had him on. I basically think that like, franchises and I would consider something similar to what you're doing as like close to that, like business in a box type thing and running a fund are like the best versions of Twitter.

Like that's like seemingly the highest and best use out of Twitter is like those two things. Like, how can I make you more money? And then how can I make you more money? Twitter.

Johnny Robinson: Yeah, it's a great business man. I will say it is not all it's cracked up to be because you get the start off twitter and you don't pay anything in ads, right? But if you want to like we're trying to scale this business, which I don't think a lot of people actually do because most of these companies are so attached to the owner as like the source of the information the way it's built now is I'm not involved in any day to day fulfillment at all.

Other than we now have something called accelerator where once you come in and you make your first 10 K 20 K in a month, we'll say, Hey, can I tell you about accelerator? And it's the way to extend the LTV on our customers because we sell one time packages. And so we were running into, as we were growing, we were like, Oh, shoot.

Going back to, we were talking about with Jack was asking about ad costs. Same thing. Everybody's advertising on Metta, their how to get rich program. We're paying two, three, sometimes up to four grand in, just CPA just our marketing costs before we pay the commissions out.

And so we're like, Oh my God. This is a terrible business. Luckily we have a really good product. So we were able to come out with the accelerator and extend the LTV on our customers. But that was a huge punch in the mouth. And in 2023 was like, if you start going to the gym, you get your newbie gains. That's what it felt like. We got our newbie gains in 2022 and then 2023, which is like, just getting punched in the face with like, rising ad costs we brought on financing partners, and then they started, I don't know if you guys ever worked with financing, there's recourse and non recourse loans.

I didn't know to ask that and we're financing. There's one with refinancing everyone through. Like, if you look at our chart of months, like may is just inflated. It's like, Oh my God, you had a good month. Well, It's because we were financing everybody that shouldn't have been financed. Then they recourse in there.

It's just like every week, nine K taken out,

10 K taken out. You know what I mean?

John Wilson: How many people are in the program now?

Johnny Robinson: So we started over 1500 house cleaning businesses.

That's insane.

Jack Carr: That is crazy. That is absolutely nuts.

John Wilson: It's a one time thing, you said.

Johnny Robinson: Yeah. One time investment for 16 weeks. And then if you ideally you're getting results uh, we do our best. And then once you get to about week 12 ish, depending on where you're at, we'll say, Hey, have you heard about accelerator? No, what's accelerator or yeah, I saw it in the group, whatever.

And then we'll. Hop on a call, tell them about Accelerator. And then in Accelerator, that's where we're getting to people who are pushing like 70k a month 60k a month. We have a lot of people crushing it. We're gonna have our first few million dollar cleaning businesses this year that have come through HSA, which is really

John Wilson: Yeah. That's incredible.

Johnny Robinson: We have about 45 that we work with on the back end in Accelerator.

45 cleaning

John Wilson: Okay. Yeah, I think in a different life, maybe in like a future life. I think that's what I like about franchising or like business in a box or like the launch, the accelerated thing that you're doing is I think it would be fun. Obviously there's difficulty and I'm really curious to like hear more about that, but I think it'd be fun to be able to like just genuinely.

Root for people to win and that'd be like your whole thing is just yeah, dude. Like, I don't know, like I want you to kill it and then you can make an impact. Like you made an impact. Like 1500 cleaning companies started. That's a lot of lives changed. I don't even know how many, but probably tens of thousands.

That's awesome.

Johnny Robinson: Yeah. we did like a little HSA wrap thing, Home Service Academy wrapped and our students generated over 10 million in sales last year.

And not all those 1500 cleaning businesses. I want to be clear. Like some people don't end up sticking with it. Some people don't even hire their first cleaner, we think that we've done as much as we could to make the process as simple as possible to get results.

But it's just like any other classroom, like a college class, you're going to have the bell curve. Some people get extremely outsized results. Most people do about 5k a month and then there's the people who never even start.

John Wilson: Yeah. You mentioned I was like thinking through this question and then I was like, Oh, you already mentioned this. Like, I would imagine you basically have the perfect platform to launch a franchise off of what you're doing. I don't know if it's going to be franchises or corporate owned, but you're about to launch a bunch of stores.

How does that look?

Johnny Robinson: Yeah. I actually think we want a big exit. So Sergio and I are thinking very big. We're not coming from the approach of like, Hey, this is like a cool business to fund our lifestyles, we think we can actually exit for at least a hundred million not because of the coaching I don't think we're gonna exit that with just the coaching but we can spin off a lot of things. So one thing we plan on launching is a cleaning chain and we don't know because we're going back and forth right now. We have the LLC and everything filed in the logos and the branding all done for it's just haven't decided if we want to franchise or if we want to just do corporate owned and there's the pros and cons of both.

And we've talked to different people on Twitter for it, but not only that, with the distribution we've built of all these cleaning companies we're creating and have created, cause we create 60 to 80 new ones every single month. We're just sending them to our software partners. The big one is booking koala, when you sign up booking, koalas, like the go to, we can just have our own problem is, we're coaching business.

Still, we're not a software company and I know it's going to be a pain in the ass. So I want to hold off on that for a bit, but we do think that's a really great way. The software plays a really great way to juice up the enterprise value of this business. Because we have the distribution built already. And that's excluding all of building a sales team in a marketing process around the software

John Wilson: In our industry, that is like a well established model like what you're describing and we're on our second one now. And I'm actually kind of surprised the issue that you're having with LTV maybe cause it's like cohort style, but the way it works in my industry is it's like best practices group, which is what you've already done.

It's just, it's meant to be ongoing forever. And then they augment that with like continued stuff added to it. Continued best practices. There's peer groups on like all the stuff that I think you're already doing. But then businesses like me pay 30 to 40 grand a year. To be a part of it basically forever.

And then what they do is they become rebate farms or launch their own products and services. So I'll spend a hundred grand this year in total through our best practices group. And that's going to be like coaching. That's sending people out of state to training to like the big ones in the group um, that's having, we just had an onsite, which like we brought in coaches.

We flew them in, they spent a week with us that costs like 20 grand. But like it was hugely beneficial for my team. So like easy 20 grand spent. And then they create relationships what you currently have but, then they get heavy rebates and kickbacks from the vendors. And then they also launched their own products too.

I'm saying all that because these businesses trade like franchises. It's basically royalties. It's not like a percentage of my revenue, but it's continued, very low churn rate, annual subscriptions. And they each have like a thousand people, a thousand companies paying a hundred grand a year.

Johnny Robinson: That's super similar to what accelerator is. It just, it took us a while for it to click and actually know how to structure it. And that's exactly what we did to solve the LTV problem was roll out the accelerator and start,

John Wilson: And accelerators um, forever,

Johnny Robinson: It's a year. So it's a year paid in full or you can finance it.

And then actually have had every person who's come up on their year now are close to their year, either verbal or re sign up for another year. And it's like a mastermind type thing. Everybody's in channels. We're doing events this year. So that's the plan. And then we're also now doing a building a whole outbound sales team to sell accelerator to establish cleaning companies, which we've never done.

It's always been starting people from scratch. And so, between the B2B, not really B2B

Yeah. um, software and the cleaning chain, I really think grow this into a really you

John Wilson: Like you definitely can. Yeah. Like SGI or a certain path was first one that we were a part of, and they traded for like 95 million back in 2019. that was with 950 members. Each paying a total of 30 grand a year, 25 grand a year on average, I don't remember But like, you for sure can.

Well established business. That, yeah, that's pumped. And you're so far into Like I feel like you got over the hard part of like, you hired coaches, sounds like. Who else is on the team?

Johnny Robinson: We have a sales manager. We've got four AEs closers. We have six appointment centers, SDRs, whatever you want to call them. And then on the coaching side, we have our coach that just works with the accelerator students. Then we have three coaches for the normal students and then a kind of director of customer success above all of them.

And then we also have our content team, which is two editors content director. And we also have like an accounts receivable lady out in Virginia. I think that's it.

John Wilson: Yeah, this is baller as hell.

Jack Carr: I was just gonna say the same thing. That is so neat.

John Wilson: Like, I love this. So you started it when? 2021? 2022?

Johnny Robinson: January, 2022 was our first kind of test. And then we've turned everything on in the ads and really started to grow and sell more people in April of 2022

John Wilson: Yeah. Okay.

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John Wilson: Can you walk me through the bell curve of staffing? Like, who were the first couple hires? When did you bring on the SDRs and the sales manager? Like, this is a really interesting org chart

Johnny Robinson: Yeah, definitely. So, I started off closing all the deals and Sergio was like product customer success. I'm just going to make sure we're getting results. That's how it was structured and almost immediately. I didn't like doing the full cycle of having to set the deals, confirm the appointments, then hop on the call to close them, then nurture them through the pipeline to close if they didn't close on the call.

So I immediately hired an appointment setter to set my deals cause it's all inbound, no outbound. Everybody's consuming my content or consumed an ad. And so this dude was just setting them and we were kind of in the trenches together. Just building out the sales process and how we wanted the calls to go and the set process to go.

And then he eventually moved to closer and we brought in a media buyer who his official title is CMO. He's actually our third partner. His name is Gino and he was big. He had a advertising agency that he ended up shutting down during COVID where he was just generating leads for home service businesses for alarm security installation businesses. And so the guy's really good at media buying. So like, Hey, come in, let's launch ads. Let's grow this thing. We brought in a videographer to uh, film content. So we can just get off Twitter and go on. Cause we saw the power of what Twitter did. So like, okay, let's go into YouTube.

Let's go into TikTok. Let's go into Instagram. And just start pumping organic to like, lower down the cost of how much we're spending on ads,

John Wilson: Which has been the best so far?

Jack Carr: Just gonna ask Yeah. Which platform?

Johnny Robinson: For content?

Jack Carr: Yeah.

Johnny Robinson: Long form YouTube, organic by far

The people that watch the long form YouTube. It's amazing. It's on par with Twitter. It's between that and Twitter. Twitter is still amazing. But we hired that first sales guy. He ended up moving to closer brought in another appointment setter, just started to repeat that process of one closer for every appointment setter up until I was just full time management probably around September.

September, October ish of 2022, and then ran the team day to day managing until March of 23, when I launched a search for a sales manager. I found this baller out in Utah, who the guy sold vacuums door to door for 3, 500 sky had a 60 percent close rate. He would set up a demonstration of this vacuum air purifier combination.

John Wilson: This dude's a baller like that's amazing.

Jack Carr: So, Utah.

Johnny Robinson: You can close that dude, you can close any you can sell anything man Like i'm so convicted in that as soon as he told me that and he's like, can I train? I've trained over 60 sales reps to do the same thing. I was like dude come in here right now. He's still here. He's been running the team and then in the kind of coaching info industry, there's a big company in the space that would put on events and their director of customer success.

I met him at an event and we were having that LTV problem I talked about and I was like, dude, you need to solve this problem. Like we can't figure it out. And it just so happened. They tried to demote him or whatever. And he called me and told me, cause he built a relationship with this guy. He immediately, I was like, dude, you need to come to HSA.

You need to build our backend. You need to build this all out exactly like what you did. And he's like, all right, done, signed him on. So he kind of revamped the whole coaching team to be more of an account management team where they're not just focused on coaching and fulfilling. They're still coaching and fulfilling.

Don't get me wrong, but now they're also sales reps for accelerator. You know what I mean? And then we also hired a content director somewhere in that timeline and to build out from the content and media department from the top down. So now we're posting 90 pieces of video across all platforms a month right now.

And we're trying to continue to scale that because the return on that is amazing.

John Wilson: Yeah, so what is the average ticket per person or business or whatever for that first slug not the accelerator?

Johnny Robinson: We've fluctuated price points. We started at 4, 200. We got up, we are closing that like 40 something percent. Then we, price increased to 6, 800 and then we saw a dip in sales coming into the new year cause we did that price increase in August of 2022 going into September and then kept that all the way to the new year.

We saw closing drop off. So I was like, let's redo this. Let's redo how we're selling this And got that back up to about 40 or some so percent and then just did a recent price increase to a little bit more than that but it's been really cool because I think we've got a really great sales team because if we saw the dip then we got them back up to About 40 but the most recent price was 7k.

It's a little bit more than that now I don't want to reveal all the cards for my sales team, you know

John Wilson: I'm gonna ask what I think is an obvious question, and I'm sure you have an answer. I'm just like why not make it A never ending monthly subscription or a weekly subscription or something like that like why the accelerator slugs

Johnny Robinson: Okay, so are you asking why is it one up front on the first or just why is it one go on the accelerator?

So what we found is we did a year and what we found with a year was that there was no urgency. And as soon as we cut that down to a 16 week program and we caught access after 16 weeks, like you don't get the coaching, you just, you can have the education material and that's it after 16 weeks, unless you want to re up for accelerator.

And what we found is we were just driving away more results because people were like, Hey, I spent a lot of money to be here. I need to take action. Whereas you have a year, you're like, maybe I'll do it. Maybe I won't, I'll get to it later. And it also helps with staffing on the fulfillment side because we know when students are being off boarded and, that am can actually take more clients

because they can only take six, 60 to 80 P like realistically, 60 people is who you can healthfully coach at one time and still, provide good support for people because you don't want to have them at like 100, 120 clients.

Everybody's just going to get crappy support.

John Wilson: Yeah, that makes sense. I'm thinking to like the programs that we're a part of, which are just never ending, but like yours is a launch from zero. So I can get why that's like, let's be urgent. Ours are like a two to three year implementation time. So that's probably a part of it. Like it just takes forever to drive that much change through a hundred, whatever people, I don't even know what the average company size is, I think average company size is 15 to 20 million

Johnny Robinson: Yeah So that's a good point actually because like you were committed to your business you're investing in this because you want to grow it. You've already done the work We're selling people on an opportunity where it's like hey, this is like A good business for you to start if you want to start a business And so you'll get some people who come in who are like, hey, I want to do this business Then you can kind of get slapped in the face entrepreneurship of oh crap like Yeah, this is simple, but it was a lot harder than I thought it was going to be, and so you don't have that same level of commitment dealing with somebody who's Just jumping into entrepreneurship versus somebody who's willing to put up with a two three year implementation

Jack Carr: Yeah. What's your completion rate? Like what does that look like on people who start the program through finishing it?

Johnny Robinson: Yeah. So we have about six. Let me actually check. Let me pull a post about we track all this

Jack Carr: I'm asking. Cause I remember reading something a while back that was saying that informational products they have a 6 percent completion rate on most of them. And then I think it was my first million podcast launched something and they saw something equally as bad.

Johnny Robinson: Okay. We have a customer journey and we have a success percentages for every student that comes in. And so right now the big things we track are you've hired cleaners by week three, you've had your first sale by week four, and you're at five K month in revenue at some point throughout the program. And so what we see here is at 163, we have 61. 4 percent who've hired a provider by week three first sale by week four is at 42 percent and then we have out of 157, 55 of those are at 5k a month of revenue

Jack Carr: So 33 percent give or take that's pretty damn good.

Johnny Robinson: We're trying to get it to 50. I know a lot of people in the space that have these business opportunity businesses and I can tell you most of them are scamming. So I'm pretty proud of those numbers. Our average data for sale is about 42. 8 days.

John Wilson: Yeah, I mean that feels good to me. Okay, I get the charging method. I think I get the opportunity. I don't know that you gave an answer on like franchise versus corporate owned. I know you said you like talk to a few different people. Which way do you think you're leaning?

Johnny Robinson: Yeah, I think we kind of want to do like a hybrid, not really franchise. Cause it seems like it's a pain in the ass

John Wilson: it's the enterprise value, bro. The enterprise value, like that franchising is an enterprise value play. Like you want to get a hundred times something, get royalties. Like it's ridiculous.

Johnny Robinson: Yeah. You see it in both though. If you look at chains like Starbucks in and out non franchises, like they're also been announced a billion dollar corporation only in seven states, but we're thinking of like a franchise like concept where you come in as an operator instead of a true franchisee

And you're just paid as like hey this I'm going to run a few locations and pick our best students in Accelerator to do that, but nothing set in stone.

We haven't really decided, and so I can't give you an answer on what we're deciding because I just, I have no idea yet. Both seem enticing, both have pros and cons, and that's what me and Sergio talk about is like, but the enterprise value for franchising ridiculous.

John Wilson: It's yeah enterprise value and then like not having to directly manage, 10, 000 cleaners or something like that I think that would be challenging but that said I do know someone that kind of launched what you just described And this was a couple of years ago, but they had a pet safety brand and like dog collars to keep dogs in your yard.

And what they did was they launched 50 locations over the course of like 36 months. And they were all like probably cleaning style locations, like kind of small. Like when I think of a cleaning company and maybe I'm totally off base here, but I think of like sub five people, maybe eight tops, is that normal?

Or like, what do you think? Okay.

Johnny Robinson: That's about on

John Wilson: Okay, so like each of these locations was exactly that. So what would happen is they would come into these, like, five of the stores were corporate owned. And they still owned a portion of the other 50. So it wasn't quite franchised. It's just that they owned like 40 percent and the operator owned 60.

So these people would come in through their training program. They would become ops managers or service managers or whatever. Like the big corporate stores, which were like two million dollars, maybe a million and a half. You know, things, and then they would get an opportunity to gain ownership. So they would like earn this ownership opportunity in these different things.

Like, okay, so now I'm going to launch a branch in Columbus, Ohio. Like, do you want this opportunity for ownership? And then by that point they already knew everything that you wanted them to know, cause they'd worked with you for like nine to 12 months and they had proven themselves. So that is a model, and it's a combination of both, because you get to charge some royalties on top of that.

Johnny Robinson: Yeah. That's an interesting business by the way, but also too, there's one in um, they're launching lots of locations. They're really blown up. It's called Enchanted Fairies. Have you guys heard of Enchanted Fairies? So all they do is,

Jack Carr: No.

Johnny Robinson: Exactly the model you just described John just with photography studios and they only make children's books.

So they'll take pictures of your kid and they'll turn it into their own story. And it's like 2000 or 3, 000 for

John Wilson: Somebody just gave me this like somebody gave me the books for my kids. They were hilarious.

I'm pretty sure, I mean it was like very like, custom here's the kid, and I got one for my dog for Christmas from uh, one of my siblings.

Johnny Robinson: Yeah, I think they're in like the mid to eight, like mid eight figure revenue range blowing up and only three or four years old, same model. We heard that and we're like, okay, this is kind of really similar. We're just selling cleaning instead of photography. it's just, we're scheming,

Jack Carr: I like that. Scheming.

John Wilson: There's a guy on Twitter and his name is Adam, I want to say Wasserstein, but that doesn't feel right. But he's a franchise And I talked to him a couple years ago because we were deciding what to do with our intellectual property. And his basic thing was, if you were going to launch multiple brands or like the same brand or in multiple locations and you're going to run the same IP through it.

You should franchise it regardless, even if you don't pay yourself royalties, like, even if it's 100 percent corporate owned. You just go through the process of franchising it. That way, when you do go to exit, you can still exit as a franchise and you get to be like communal revenue. And it, solves some of the intellectual property issues that you will end up having later on. Cause like the issue that we had when we were in multi location is like, we had all these management fees going back and forth to like, Hey, I want to use shared services. And I want to use the marketing team over here, and I want to, like, I got to pay you to borrow your IP. That's what a royalty is.

Like, we're overcomplicating a royalty. And I, couldn't get my brain around that because it was a royalty to myself. But, even if it's 1 percent or whatever so he encouraged us to go through that process. We didn't end up doing it, we went in a different direction. Consolidated from six locations to one, but I don't I'll see if I can find this information.

I'll like DM that you.

Johnny Robinson: Oh, that's interesting. That's super interesting. I love that.

John Wilson: Man, this was fascinating. Like what a journey. I'm really glad we had you back on. Like this was fun. Okay, so you, sold the business you originally talked to us about like two years ago, three years ago. At this point. You launched another one. You gave it to your mom. That's just like a baller.

A baller move. And then since then, you've helped 1, 500 other entrepreneurs succeed. That's sweet, man. Like you've made a dent.

Johnny Robinson: Man, shout out to Twitter shout out to Twitter man. I started tweeting off boring business ideas is what the tweet that launched my account. So it's funny how things play out I didn't expect to be a cleaning coach or remote house cleaning consultant guy But I mean, hey, it worked out, we got some big plans man and I appreciate you having me on again

Jack Carr: That's an awesome update.

Johnny Robinson: And I was surprised you guys honestly invited me back on given that not technically in the homes. I'm kind of in the home service. It's kind of not

John Wilson: Yeah. I think one, supporting is interesting, two, like, you did too, and I think that's fascinating. So like, if you're a listener, we're trying to talk to people that have been home service adjacent or service adjacent, and I'm especially fascinated right now with someone who's exited and like, what they do next inside. So like, this was fascinating. Uh, Mike Botkin, we're gonna have him back on. He rolled up a bunch of landscaping companies. He's like still figuring out what he's doing next. But like I think it's just fun to be able to like, you take this snapshot of someone's life like, so I'm gonna take a snapshot of your life from two three years ago, and like, listen to that hour that we spent together, and then contrast that to like, who I just sat across the monitor from So I think that's like fun to watch people grow and Mike's the same one. And Brian Solentrop, we have to have him back on. I don't think he still has the cleaning business, but he like totally a good one

Johnny Robinson: He'd be a good one dude. Me Liam and Brian who you mentioned before he had all three of us on we're still on a group chat We all still talk almost every day

John Wilson: The podcast has been going for long enough that I'm starting to revisit and I'm like, man, what are they up to?

Like, what are they doing? How did they end up doing the thing? So it's been fun. I'm genuinely glad that we got to connect again. This was really cool. And you're up to some cool stuff.

Johnny Robinson: Yeah, likewise, man. I guess we'll see what happens. I'll see you in two years, maybe.

John Wilson: Yeah, man, we'll have you back in two years. Uh, If people want to connect with you, where can they find you?

Johnny Robinson: Yeah Squeegeegod on Twitter and then every other platform, Instagram TIktok YouTube. It's just Johnny and Sergio. Johnny and Sergio. That's it.

John Wilson: Yeah, that's cool. I gotta talk to Sergio at some point. Sounds like a baller.

Johnny Robinson: Yeah, I know, dude. We work so well together, man. It's like two polar opposites, but it works. So if you want to

John Wilson: Yeah,

Johnny Robinson: Just let me know.

John Wilson: That's great. All right. Well, thanks for coming on. Check out at squeegee god and for fun, everyone should re listen to the original episode that we had Johnny on you know now we've got a three year difference of like here we are now. We're checking back in. So i'm glad you came back on

Johnny Robinson: Yeah. Thanks again for having me, man. Much appreciated.

Thanks for tuning in to Owned and Operated, the podcast for home service entrepreneurs. If you enjoyed today's episode, please hit the like button and subscribe to the podcast. If you have any questions or topics you'd like us to cover, feel free to reach out. You can find me on Twitter at at Wilson companies.

I'll see you next time.

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