Owned and Operated #76 - Maximizing the Daily Potential of Your Business

Max Potential, Max Money.
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In this episode, John and Jack discuss how home service businesses handle their capacity. As a service, you are selling the time and expertise of your techs. The job is to fill capacity, and you should think about filling capacity like this: if you have a tech for eight hours, you want them to be working hands on the tools as much of those eight hours as possible. Strategic zoning, targeting marketing, and led gen are all a part of it! Tune in to learn how you can fill your capacity with the most efficient tactics.

Episode Hosts: 🎤
John Wilson: @WilsonCompanies on Twitter
Jack Carr: @TheHVACJack on Twitter

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The Owned and Operated Weekly Insights Newsletter

John Wilson, CEO of Wilson Companies

Jack Carr, CEO of Rapid HVAC

Owned and Operated Episode #76 Transcript

John Wilson: I'm John Wilson. Welcome to Owned and Operated. Twice a week, we talk about home service businesses, and if you're a home service entrepreneur, then this is going to be the show for you. We talk about our own business in residential plumbing, HVAC, and electric, and we also talk about business models that we just find interesting.

Let's get into it.

If you're a home service entrepreneur that's just starting out, or is early on in the journey, and you haven't broken the five million dollar revenue mark, we've got an event for you. This spring in Cleveland, March 19th to the 21st, we're hosting an event at my office. It's going to be awesome. Honestly, some of the most impactful visits of my career have been visits to companies that were larger than we were, that we could take lessons from, and see how they're doing stuff.

Like get a behind the scenes look, how are they structuring warehouse? How are they thinking about call center? Can I talk to their managers? Can I understand what their KPIs are? We're going to dive into all that stuff. We are here to help people get above 5 million in revenue. So join us in Akron, Ohio, March 19th to the 21st for a breaking 5 million event.

Love to see you there. Details are ownedandoperated. com

Today on Owned and Operated, Jack and I talk capacity. Capacity is the maximum amount that something can hold. So, how do you fill your schedule, and how do you think about maximizing the dollars that come out of your team every day in service, sales, and install? It's a big conversation, has big, lasting effects all the way from 1 million in sales to 100 million in sales.

So it's something to attempt to get right as early as possible. It's a great episode, I know I enjoyed it. Thanks for tuning in.

Welcome back to

Jack Carr: Owned and Operated.

John Wilson: Yeah. We're diving back in, we're diving deep. So as you and I were talking about what to talk about, I came up with a topic, you were like, no, that doesn't sound like a good topic, and then you couldn't come up with a reason why.

Which is great!

Jack Carr: I was gonna catch 20, or like, devil's advocate it, and then I went this is actually a good conversation, so

John Wilson: Yeah. so the conversation we originally started with optimizing schedule and I don't even know if that's the right way to put it. So I think that potentially the right way to put it is dispatching method, either that or like capacity, which is loaded.

Jack Carr: That's probably accurate. It's capacity and how to deal with capacity.

John Wilson: Yeah, so capacity. I'll give my spiel and I hope it turns into a good conversation because I think that this will be helpful and I want to be challenged so I can get better at it. So capacity is the maximum amount that something can carry or hold, right?

That's capacity. Very dictionary of me today. so when we're thinking about capacity, like what we sell is time and expertise. However it is that we frame that, we're problem solvers, we're all that stuff, but really we're selling time. And we're selling like the expertise of someone that we have out there.

And our job is to fill capacity. And the way we think about filling capacity is, as if I have someone for eight hours, we want them to be working hands on the tools as much of those eight hours as possible. Now, inside HVAC and plumbing, the utilization rate, which is how many hours on the tools will your people have for service is 40%, which is like crazy, right?

Is that roughly what you guys see in your business?

Jack Carr: This was actually where I was going to go with my comment on it is, are you talking about like, what did they call it? Worked hours or that's not the correct term.

John Wilson: You can just call it wrench time. Like how much of your time is wrench time?

So like physically turning wrenches. So capacity is two different things. One is on the service side. Is their schedule full? Do they have enough leads? How good is the routing and how much of their time is wrench time? So that service capacity is in install is did we fill their day? Yeah. And how we think about those two different things is important.

'Cause in service, you're feeding leads to sales and in sales fills install schedule. So when you're going to fill capacity, you have to make a decision for service. And it's a conscious decision, and I encourage everyone to like, think through thoroughly. Is what dispatching method you're gonna choose.

So, I've got my fingers up. But like, on one side let's call it one. And over here is five. So there's basically two polar opposites with dispatching. So over here, over by one is route based. So in our last episode, we just talked about a pool service company. Pool service companies is like very route based.

It's a low dollar job and your job is to put as many homes and pools into that route as possible. Efficiency is the name of the game over here on five is dollars. And these are, counter goals. Typically, the more route focused you're going to get, the less dollars you're dealing with.

You're dealing with these 80, 100 services you're not dealing with opportunity. The way you have to think about dispatching is, where in that 1 to 5 am I going to be? Like, what works the best for my business? Am I going to be totally route based, and that's the way we do things? Some HVAC companies work really well that way.

The problem is they usually put the wrong guy on the job because it's not dollars based. So there'll be like, you run 10 tune ups in this neighborhood, but you're also the worst equipment flipper that we have, right? Whereas dollar based is you're the best equipment flipper that we have, but you only run four to five calls a day and you might drive 45 minutes in between them.

And the balance is somewhere in between them.

Jack Carr: I'm smiling because you put it very eloquently, but this is something that we deal with and , we didn't think about it from that perspective, but it really is those two separate points.

John Wilson: There are two totally counter points to dispatch and you need to decide which is the right one for your business.

Jack Carr: And then we juxtapose it based on where, because I don't know how other people do it, but we dispatch from home too. So we dispatch. Text based on their location. And so we have texts in a 60 mile service area radius around Nashville, right? We have some texts that are closer to initial jobs to the first jobs of the day because we don't want them driving 60 miles to get to the other end of the spectrum.

But if the call is good enough, we will send the best tech over to there. So it is a balance between

Opportunity of sale, how old the unit and that takes a bunch of work on the back end, right? So it's easy to say that, but there's so much that goes into it. There's recognizing age of equipment, collecting data on age of equipment. Is it a maintenance? Is it a service? Hey, this is an estimate.

Like I need new equipment come out now. And so I don't know where we are in that spectrum, to be honest with you. That's something I haven't Like, I need to chew on that a little bit because that's an interesting perspective on like, where do you sit on there? I think we tend to sit more opportunity based as a smaller company.

I'm less concerned about wasted drive time if we can get it back with a big sale.. But maybe that's me being blind a little bit. And so maybe, you know, Maybe.

John Wilson: So resolving dispatch method is something that should get handled pretty early on in your business because it has to become an intentional part of how you grow. And I don't know that there's a right or a wrong way, honestly. I think it's just like what works for you.

Jack Carr: Yeah. The more interesting part. So as we set up like multiple locations and specifically GMBs , we utilize. our route specificity leading to that one route side to pinpoint locations where we are going to either, rent shop space to create a GMB or try to drive additional traffic in that area.

One because it's closer to our techs. And then we have other GMBs that are located in areas that we want to pick up. Because it's more lucrative because it's a higher medium average income in that location. So we're trying to play both fields at the moment. And now you're giving me an existential crisis. Feel like now I need to be more intentional about where we're going to sit and how that's going to look moving forward.

John Wilson: A hundred percent. I think the important things to say here is it's a one and a five as in, there's still a two, three and a four in there.

So we are solidly 80 percent dollar based like profit dispatching versus route dispatching. But it's probably easier to not have a clear direction when the team is smaller and you can like dictate the schedule a little bit more, but as you grow with more and more dispatchers, they need very clear direction on what does winning look like for them?

Because they're the ones that dispatch, they control the route. So are they driving for dollars, even though it's less calls or are they driving for efficiency so that they can knock out more calls again I think it's mainly just how the business works.

Jack Carr: I think it also depends your geolocation too, right?

So to take it even one step further the other conversation I have a lot with other owners as well as, my team is whether you're buying in an area or whether you're growing into an area, would you rather be a small fish in a big pond or the big fish in the small pond?

John Wilson: Personally.

Jack Carr: You're going to answer it.

John Wilson: I would rather be the big fish in the big pond.

Jack Carr: Yeah, that's the best option, but for a smaller, medium sized business that's growing or you're acquiring like the big fish in the big pond is the 200 million giant. That's down the road. But unfortunately I can't be Hoffman at the moment.

John Wilson: Soon.

Jack Carr: Soon. Maybe 8 years. We'll see. Point being though is, when you grow into a small pond geographically they tend to be smaller cities and so it could be one way or the other depending on how dense the population is of that small pond, right? that's a crazy one. I don't know. I don't know what the answer is.

John Wilson: Yeah, I think it's dependent on the business. We have an answer. I think the biggest thing is pick which side of that spectrum you're on. Communicate that throughout your team, because it really does drive the ship.

Jack Carr: Yeah, because on the other side of it if you were a property manager maintenance company that was really working on tight margins, then you would be completely on that one side.

You say, Hey, we may razor thin margins, but we have huge volume. We need to be as efficient as possible on our drive time. And then you have companies that are like, Hey, we need to capitalize we're not going to do any of those commercial. No cuts, no, anything like that. Full residential. How do we maximize our dollar amounts per job?

John Wilson: Yeah. So I think you can see property management is a good one on one side. The other one is like a Roto Rooter in plumbing where they will send a technician on a two hour drive to go potentially do any call that they think could turn into opportunity. So like around here,, when we get people from Roto Rooter, we frequently get stories that they went from Akron or Cleveland to Toledo.

Which is like a full two, two and a half hours. And that's a big part of it, is like they're commissioned only, so the company doesn't have a ton to lose. And they go out there and they like replace a toilet flapper. And they're just like what did I just do? So that's the other side of the spectrum.

Full opportunity based, company has nothing to lose they put all the risk onto the employee. So. On service pick where you are and we got on to that because we're back on capacity, right? So what determines your capacity and service is your dispatching method because if you're running the number one the route based dispatching method you can do more you can do 10 to 12 HVAC tune ups a day if they only take you 20 minutes and you just walk from one to the next we'll talk to people , and they're in recruiting and they're like, how many tune ups do you do a day?

And we're like four to five. And they're like, how on earth does that work? And it's like, we dispatch totally differently than how you're used to being dispatched. It is just a different set of rules here. Cause we're on the other side of the spectrum. So they're doing much more volume. But usually when I find companies that are over on this route sized type business they don't normally have a great sales process.

So they do tend to make all their money. In efficiency, not in the sale. Whereas we make all of our money in the sale.

Jack Carr: Yeah, that's interesting. Cause, that permeates through the whole company too. Cause your volume has to be there. And your customer acquisition cost has to be incredibly low to be able to maximize.

If you have great efficiency, it doesn't matter if you're not one making that money. Because you don't have enough customers. So you have to have a really good lead gen system.

John Wilson: it steers the ship.

Jack Carr: See, I was thinking maybe you'd find that more in kind of a franchise model, But you'd probably find that more, cost driven price driven.

John Wilson: So the larger the company, You typically find what's called dispatching for profits, Which is a four or a five. that's what we run.

Jack Carr: John, where did you come up with this one to five scale? Is this like a next start thing that you've ripped off?

John Wilson: Honestly, this is John's head. This is something I made up a couple of years ago because I think people unintentionally dispatch and you got to pick a lane. And if, for no other reason than to give clarity to your team. So someone's going to start and they need to know, am I route based or am I dollars based?

Now that said, different teams could be different things. Like our septic business is route based. That's not opportunity. That's a 300 thing, no matter how far we have to drive. So we might as well not drive far. sometimes you have both but most of our business is opportunity based. All that said, that really determines how you fill capacity.

So what that looks like for us is we might have an extra couple guys than another HVAC company. So if I'm talking to an HVAC company, they could be like, dude, we do 10 tune ups a day. Blah, blah, blah. But maybe they're tiny because all their money is made from tune ups and not installs. Whereas that one guy.

you know, It takes me two guys to do that one guy's output of tune ups because of how we route. Now the dream scenario is you get a very tight geographic area that you run somewhat of a route based and dollar based dispatching model. So that is a goal for us right now we're splitting our service area into zones.

And we're tightening our zones up. So we're trying to get 50 percent of our revenue in zones one and two. So that's been a really big push for us so that we can both drive dollars and efficiency, but it's taken us years to be able to even think about getting there.

Jack Carr: Yeah. I was gonna say, not throw down another rabbit hole, but how are you determining zones? Is that another gross or a medium income question or

John Wilson: It's a couple of different things. It's proximity to our office. What is routing time?

Jack Carr: Makes sense.

John Wilson: And then, inside routing time, what's the average age of the home, what's the average household income, what's the average age, and what's the population of that zip code.

Jack Carr: Okay.

John Wilson: None of it's rocket science, but we're trying to, like as we're blowing up our marketing, we are intentionally choosing zones. So that's really all this is. And you basically said the same thing Hey, if we're putting a GMB in this area, I want to make sure that we like grow more in that area.

We're doing the same thing. We're just carpet bombing it. Hey, you're going to get postcards. You're going to get TV. We're going to follow you around on meta. You're going to see our trucks everywhere because we're going to be all up in your business. So what we hope this does is we hope that every single service tech instead of four calls a day, we'll now be able to run five, which is a 25 percent jump in potential opportunities, which as I shared with you, we have more than enough leads to do that with the existing team and not change anything.

Hey, this episode is sponsored by service scalers. So service scalers is actually a brand that I've used personally with our companies for a little bit over a year now, , they've helped us manage our digital advertising. Frankly, they did a lot better than our last agency leads went through the roof and cost per click went way down.

Check out service scalers. If you're a plumbing HVAC or electrical home service company, that's what they knock out of the park and they did a great job for me.

Jack Carr: That was my next question, actually, with capacity, right? Is you're talking about how many your lead flow is there? You have it, you know, that's the first step.

The second step is as it comes in, how do you hire? To manage the amount of leads that you have you know, there's the three day dispatch board are you utilizing that, or what method are you utilizing to say, hey, we have enough people, or we have too many people how far out are you trying to be booked, what does that look like?

John Wilson: So we try to be booked out like same day next day for install. We want to be able to get stuff done quick. So sometimes we do that. Sometimes we don't. We usually, if we sell something, we have the opportunity to do it tomorrow. So that is important to us. And then in service, we usually try to be three to one.

So three calls tomorrow, two calls the day after that one call the day after that. So we want to be able to have room for opportunity, but not go into the day with an empty schedule.

Jack Carr: Yeah. I think that's the key that's what we started utilizing as well, and that's how our outbound is. What time do you start?

You said your guys start outbounding at, or your call team starts outbounding at two. They go into code red.

John Wilson: This is a longer conversation.

Jack Carr: Okay. No. Let's not get into it then. We've talked on call center before. I'd hate to, drive it back there. If we're allowed to run free, it'll be call center.

John Wilson: And it'd be call center and septic and lead flow like all day long. But yeah, so dispatching method steers the capacity train. So that's how it works on service. On the install side, the way to think about capacity and this is something we're working on now, we badly sell install.

So we're actively tightening this up right now. We'll sell a six hour project. The problem with a six hour project is you lost two hours. Because you're not going to do a two hour project on top of that. We're dividing our install now up into half days and full days. And that's the big change that we're making there.

And we expect revenue to jump, which should be good. Because we're going to be more efficient and we're going to fill our capacity better. But usually what we've historically told people is if we have installers going home before 2 p. m., That was a failure of dispatch. We did not fill their board to capacity. We either missold it or we didn't have something that they could go float in on really quick to get done.

Because we're really caring about per day revenue per install team.

Jack Carr: And so, do your installers, they do the big installs, right? They're doing new units, they're doing packages, they're doing splits. What kind of things are they floating in on? Are they floating in on blower wheel changes, board changes, duct cleaning what's that float look like?

John Wilson: All our installers do is install.

Jack Carr: So all they do is install new units?

John Wilson: Yes.

Jack Carr: Okay, so then , I mean if they go home at 2 or 1. 30 you're saying that capacity was missed because they should have sold another package to keep them there till 5?

John Wilson: No so HVAC, what I would expect is like, is there a callback to run?

So that way that callback doesn't mess up a full day tomorrow.

Jack Carr: I see, yeah.

John Wilson: In the other trades, it's probably a little bit more obvious. than HVAC, where There likely is something that we could do for an hour or two hours. At the end of the day, if we had a five hour project, so we probably could, mostly recall based or like not even recall, but second visit, like they have to go do one thing that they couldn't do in that first.

Someone has to go back for an hour. We don't want to ruin a whole 3, 000 day of revenue for that crew. So can we slide it in now?

Jack Carr: Okay. And then, so you're talking about a lot of capacity from like an install perspective or from a board perspective, but from a hiring perspective, do you have a framework on I guess you kind of answered that.

I'm just trying to wrap my head around like once you get your lead gen down and lead gen and incoming. And it's less of an issue because you can throttle that. I guess my problem that I'm having right now is when you're so much smaller, maybe that's what you can speak on is when you're, that two to 3 million range.

One adding another tech to the team is difficult because you're adding another head count. but you don't have the leads to necessarily fill them up yet. And so your scale, right? Your one to five kind of fluctuates in and out as you hire new personnel. And you fill up their schedule with whatever, just cause you want them to work.

And then as they kind of, your business builds and then they fill up, then you can get back to this four or five.

John Wilson: You following? Yeah. That's roughly how we think about it too. So I think the numbers might be a little different. We think about it a little bit less now than we used to.

Obviously we currently are blessed to have a wonderful amount of leads. So when we bring on a new tech, we could basically bring on a new tech anytime we want, but we also built it like that. Cause I. told the team and I've said it here, there's no safe word for recruitment. We are going to continue hiring.

So that means leads always have to grow, which I showed you my chart. That's exactly what's happening. Leads always have to go up because we will always be bringing on new people. And we've basically held true to that where every Monday, three to five people start. So that's what we're here to do.

I think when you're smaller, the way we think about staffing. I still use this metric a little. I used it today with electrical service. So we were looking at some hires and we had a really great shadow the other day. And we're going to offer. And when we went to make that offer, the first thing we did was what does lead flow look like in that department?

Now we're not thinking of that or having that conversation as a let's not hire this person. We're thinking about that as a how do we level up our lead flow to be ready for this person. And we call it activating. If I hire a new tech today, and he starts on Monday, I have two weeks of training. He's going to come on he's going to ride along with somebody, he's going to learn Service Titan, he's going to learn the flat rate price book, he's going to onboard do all of our HR and manager training, all that stuff.

And that takes two weeks. So on his 11th day of work, he is going to be up and running in his own truck. Sometimes they beat that, but it's uncommon. We did have somebody beat that the other day. It shocks the system though, because what that does is it gives our marketing team it's okay if you don't have a marketing team, if you're doing it, it doesn't matter.

It's just, that's how we communicated about it. It gives our marketing team two weeks to drive more leads. So maybe those leads are like, Hey, okay now our minimum call goal for plumbing is no longer 125 appointments a day. Now it's 130 because I have to fill this additional person.

So how are we going to find those five extra calls? All right. Are we going to outbound more with an ISR? Are we going to run additional 50 emails so that we can hopefully convert a few more of those opportunities. Are we going to increase PPC? Are we going to increase LSA? It's all the same math that you guys are doing.

We're just a little bit more deliberate about it. So I have this person starting. I have to fill their schedule and they activate. That's the term we use. They activate in two weeks and they need 20 calls that week to be at full capacity. So you have a two weeks heads up that they need 20 calls. And sometimes that's been challenging, but honestly, not that challenging.

Not really like at the end of the day, it's usually just money.

Jack Carr: Yeah, you just start putting additional funds into PPC LSA and you probably could do that.

John Wilson: And then you back those off later as you can and you fill it in with whatever is more efficient on a cost per lead basis.

Jack Carr: Yeah, no, that, that makes sense. That's what we did for plumbing is once we dried up all of our in house initial, we just started cranking up the dial on PPC for plumbing and right today it's higher than our HVAC budget, but hopefully one day we'll be able to throw it back once, plumbing for our company kind of kicks in so it's the same idea. I think in the long run I still think that we're going to be intentional about like I wouldn't want to go out there and hire ten plumbers tomorrow and then just dump a bunch of money in it.

John Wilson: No, that's challenging but we have hired three or four at a time in those teams, right?

So like those teams aren't necessarily huge. So like electrical service right now it's six people so one person is a lot, if they only need 24 calls a day I'm adding an additional four calls to that, that I would need. So that's a lot percentage wise. Yeah. That said it's still doable.

And I think if you build the on ramp for what it looks like to activate a new tech and fill their capacity, it becomes a little bit more approachable and that's a little bit of a mix of proactive and reactive marketing like do we bump up LSAs? Do we send some postcards?

Postcards take two weeks. You design it, then you print it, then you ship it. So can we do that in enough time to be effective? Can you ramp the app PPC? Can you send emails? Just like figuring out what levers to pull. I think that's the real driver but what I would encourage people to do and I'm saying this as much to anyone listening as I am to myself, I know I even said it on this show, it's such a natural tendency.

I said hey, we're thinking about turning off LSAs, that would be fun, right? What I'm about to encourage people to do, and I need a taste of my own medicine. I challenge you not to turn it off and just to go hire somebody else.

Jack Carr: Yeah.

John Wilson: I think you get in this place of comfort where you ignore the clear signs.

So almost every week we set a record call goal. Like we have more calls than the week before, except for Thanksgiving week. Yeah. You, that was a big dip. Yeah. Cause Thanksgiving. But like, That has been our reality for six months. And even with that being our reality and knowing that this week is going to be more than last week and next week is going to be more than this week.

I still find myself thinking, Oh, okay, let's slow down ads instead of pushing to, we have enough, we need to keep going.

Jack Carr: I was going to say, you've mentioned that to me multiple times, that you're either going to not turn on ads, or you're going to shut down ads because you're getting too much.

John Wilson: I know, have to catch myself.

Jack Carr: Such a good problem to have, too.

John Wilson: It's a wild problem. And I can't believe that we have it. Which is cool. I really can't.

Jack Carr: Yeah, so back to capacity. That's how you view capacity.

And you actually answered my initial question. So my initial question that I was going to devil's advocate with you was honestly, what size do you worry about capacity? Or what size do you worry about, sending them to this or this? Because I think before you, and this is speaking from our size right now, you're drawing so many different directions.

That capacity is one of the last things I think that's on your mind. And that being said, it's not. You know, We are just unintentionally working around it. And so, to be more intentional with it is the driver there. Be more intentional and realize that you are dealing with capacity on the daily, whether you like it or not, and focus on, really creating those SOPs and deciding what your business is and what it's going to look like.

John Wilson: Yeah. And it affects a lot that go down the line, like even decisions like, am I going to run four calls or eight for tune ups and HVAC? That is a dispatching decision.

Jack Carr: Or what my time window is going to be. I know we've had this conversation, not on here before, but are we going to run a two hour time frame or a four hour time frame?

Or just no, there's no time. I know there's certain people who love this, where you don't run, two hour time slots. We don't run any time slots. And that still blows my mind to this day.

John Wilson: Yeah, we're on no time slots now, but it's still pretty new, so I don't have much to say about it. But picking dispatch method decides a lot for your business. It decides pricing cause it's time on the tools. It decides routing. It decides how many calls a day, which again, determines pricing. And then it goes right into staffing. Cause if you have 10 leads a day to run and you're only, that's one person or that's two you got to pick which one that is, and you need a good reason for why.

But yeah it ripples down. Think about capacity. It affects most of what you do. And you might not be thinking about it, which is okay. And honestly, capacity, I think probably the big lesson is if you can get a hold of capacity, the earlier the better. So we're 140 some people. We're about to break that 2 million a month.

I think January's gonna be our first 2 million a month, which is crazy. And we're just getting a around capacity, and I'm sure in a year, I'll look back and be like, I didn't have my arms around. Yeah, I thought I did. Yeah, I thought I did. Because a year ago I probably thought I did too.

I probably thought it was pretty good, but now that I'm looking, I'm like, man, there's a gap here. And the gap between where we are and where I think we could be is a 20 percent revenue jump. That's not a small revenue jump. We're probably going to implement that in December, and that is going to be what crosses us in the 2 million a month range.

This decision of capacity. That's how freaking real this thing is. So can we add that fifth call, because we market tighter, and can we sell half day, full days, and install, so that we don't lose an hour across every install team? For sold hours. And those two decisions will likely add 20 percent revenue.

Jack Carr: And can we hire instead of turn off LSA?

John Wilson: Yeah, I got challenged on that today which was good. We sent out three offers today for more technicians and like every time it's like, Oh man, can we keep them busy? And it's like, no, one. We can like, I did more phone calls last week than in the entire month of August.

I can keep these boys busy.

Jack Carr: Yeah, exactly. That's awesome. It's crazy. But yeah good conversation.

John Wilson: Capacity, so. affects a lot of decisions. Get intentional around it. Decide how you want to handle it because it determines your dispatching, your pricing, and your staffing. So obviously three big important things.

Thanks for tuning in today. This was a solid episode. I feel like we did good. . All right. Twice a week, Tuesdays and Thursdays, we are dropping bombs all up on Apple and Spotify and wherever it is that you listen to podcasts. Please make sure you give us a five star, make sure you follow or hit subscribe.

And thanks for tuning in.

Jack Carr: Thanks all.

John Wilson: Thanks for tuning in to Owned and Operated, the podcast for home service entrepreneurs. If you enjoyed today's episode, please hit the like button and subscribe to the podcast. If you have any questions or topics you'd like us to cover, feel free to reach out. You can find me on Twitter at at Wilson companies.

I'll see you next time.

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