In this episode we’re back with part two of the Chris Barr series on Jackquisitions. Chris is three months into his journey to acquire a business in Florida, and he’s bringing real updates from the trenches. From opportunity cost and deal dynamics to cold outreach and broker networks, this episode is packed with hard-won insights from an active business searcher.
We dive into the pros and cons of a pool service business he’s evaluating, the realities of navigating employee classification, and how acquisition imperfections are often just part of the game. Chris breaks down the lessons learned so far—from generating leads to refining search strategies—and why growth, not just debt repayment, should be the north star in any acquisition strategy.
If you're in the search phase or thinking about acquiring a service business, this is a front-row seat to the messy, insightful, and exciting reality of buying a company.
🔹 In This Episode, We Cover:
- Navigating the first 90 days of a business search
- Why opportunity cost is a real consideration in search
- Behind-the-scenes of evaluating a pool service business
- Key pros and cons of industry-specific acquisitions
- How Chris is using cold outreach and networking to source deals
- The tradeoffs between growth and early debt repayment
- Why no acquisition deal is ever perfect—and that’s okay
- Refreshing broker pipelines and learning from every interaction
- Lessons in lead generation and seller conversations
🌐 More resources
👤 Hosted by:
Jack Carr
👤Episode Guest:
Chris Barr
💼 Shoutout to Appletree Business Services
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🎁 Get a free tax & financial review or 10% off a QOE report.
👉 Book a call at Appletreebusiness.com — tell Patrick Jack sent you.
💼 Special Thanks to First Internet Bank!
Looking to buy or expand a business? First Internet Bank is a National Preferred SBA lender specializing in acquisitions for the skilled trades. Their SBA loan program offers up to 90% financing for business acquisitions, partner buyouts, and commercial real estate—plus optional lines of credit to fuel future growth. Unlike traditional lenders, they take a “how can we” approach, making deals happen for both first-time buyers and experienced operators.
Jack Carr: [00:00:00] Welcome back to Jack Acquisitions guys. This is the second episode in the Chris Barr series. Following him along as he purchases his first business. The first episode was a lot about who he is and some strategies to find his first business, but we start to deep dive into really cool topics here this week.
Really excited that you guys are sticking along for the journey. And enjoy.
Welcome back to Jack Acquisitions. We have the one, the only. Jack Carr, but also the one, the only Chris Barr here today. Hey Chris, how's it going?
Chris Barr: Good to meet you guys. Yeah, doing well, man. Um, appreciate you asking. Good to be back. Yeah, good to be back for round two.
Jack Carr: I, as well as many others that I'm talking to, are really excited about your journey.
Um, for those who don't know, Chris is a searcher. He's been doing this for three months. If you missed the first episode, um, he is trying to [00:01:00] buy a business down in Florida. And with that, um, today we have some updates and, um, I'm super excited, man.
Chris Barr: Yeah, yeah. Likewise man. Um, yeah, and just kind of the, the general update from the past week, you know, as I'm sure we've all gone through managing opportunity cost.
It's, it's a, it's a tough one. Um. You know, I had a lot of bandwidth get sucked into a smaller deal and then kind of got to the end of the week. I'm like. Where, where did my time go? I went into this, and that's really not even gonna be, you know, a main purchase for me. So, you know, taking notes, and again, you know, it's, it's not gonna be, it's not gonna be perfect.
I think any search process, if done right, is gonna have a lot of imperfections along the way. So, adjusting as you go is the name of the game.
Jack Carr: Yeah. I mean, you're learning, right? This is, this is a huge learning process. Whether, and I feel like the goal is not necessarily to get to the finish line on any one business or one week.
Sure. But the goal is to pick up knowledge and information from each, whether that's, hey, now I can, I can research a business at a better rate, or, mm-hmm I can [00:02:00] do this better. Or like, Hey, I understand the SBA better now that I've gone through this deal, fell through at the last minute. But I understand what the SBA is asking and looking for in terms of questions.
So there's, there's like a learning process that's almost more important. It, it's like dating, right? You know, a lot of people do marry their high school sweethearts, but throughout the dating process, you're dating these businesses to figure out which ones you like or don't like.
Chris Barr: No, absolutely. And yeah, as part of that.
Learning process, which is weird because I've almost like put that as at high of a premium as actually getting the business bought. Mm-hmm. It's like I, I want to be robust, acknowledge, uh, when I go into this thing. So at the end of the day, a few deals follow through, but I feel like I really learned something.
It sounds like very cliche and cheesy to say, but like, I, I really feel like that is not time wasted at all.
Jack Carr: Exactly.
Chris Barr: I do put a huge premium
Jack Carr: on also. Big, big, uh, shout out to any brokers listening. I'm sorry. You know, I say that and then I'm like, oh, in my head I'm going, ah, yeah, that probably doesn't sound so great to a broker whose, you know, job is, doesn't [00:03:00] get paid until they close.
But realistically, that, that is the way it goes, unfortunately. And, um, I.
Chris Barr: I was a commercial real estate broker for years and I gotta say, good brokers have to accept that as part of the process. Yeah, exactly. They have to be patient and realize they're in it for the long haul as a marathon with their buyer or their seller, whoever they're working with.
So, but I do hear you. It's probably not great.
Jack Carr: So. Update me though real quick on like mm-hmm. The, the actual search itself. Sure. So what are you doing to, to bring in new leads? How are you viewing that time spent? Um, or did you just not bring in any leads this week? You were just working on that singular, smaller.
I. Option. You know,
Chris Barr: um, it's been a mix of both. I would say mostly have been, um, kind of have bandwidth taken up by the, the stuff that's on my plate that I'm reviewing. Now. Of course, you, you have to do something else. Learn from real estate. You have to constantly be developing the pipeline because the second that what is on your plate currently dries up mm-hmm.
To not have anything to backfill it with is a very spooky feeling. So, no, that [00:04:00] there's always going to be, um. So that pipeline build and that outreach, uh, I, you know, again, all of the listings come through on Monday. You know, that's a good part of my Monday is flipping through every listing. I feel like I haven't seen.
Um, seeing if there's anything worth filling out in NDA. You know, again, since I'm hunting in such a tight geographic area, some weeks it's just not gonna be much new on the market that's worth poking into. So it was one of those weeks, but, and I would say that as we talked about last time, the networking and establishing myself within the community has been a, um, been a big practice.
So a lot of coffee dates, a lot of meeting with people, letting 'em know what I'm doing. Um, that was, I was probably doing that for a total of. 10, 12 hours last week. And again, I have to accept that those aren't gonna always materialize quick. That might be one where somebody's having a conversation a month down the road, they talk to somebody who mentions their selling.
They say, oh, I talked to this one guy. Um, so that's, that's a long play. And again, it's, I think that that's something that we were talking about in between weeks is [00:05:00] getting comfortable with. Standing by to stand by, but also not being complacent and consistently showing up every day to push the ball forward and kind of what, what that balance looks like.
So, um, yeah.
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How are you? Uh, this is an interesting point, like how are you sourcing? The, the individuals for these coffee dates or, or this mm-hmm. Networking event. Like are you going on to LinkedIn and, and writing people, like what, what is your process for reaching out to potential owners and or somebody who could get you in contact with a potential seller?
Chris Barr: Sure. Yeah. Um, as I mentioned, uh, if subscribed that. Um, DMB Hoover's database. Mm-hmm. So I've been cold outreaching to businesses and a lot of owners really just like, and again, I try to pose, hey, you know, young ambitious entrepreneur here, we'd love to, you know, buy you a cup of coffee, buy you lunch, you know, um, just take a few minutes of your time.
And again, they, they really just are. Too crammed out for that. They really have no interest in really sitting down with you. Uh, it's got been much more effective. Get to the point of, Hey, I'm trying to buy a small business. You know, I ever thought about selling. Um, but how I'm sourcing the coffee dance to [00:07:00] answer the question is I went to a few Chamber of Commerce events.
That was huge. Uh, one of the individuals I met there, uh, invited me to another local networking event. So, um, met a bunch of great contacts there. I felt like that was very highly worthwhile. So, um, been following up to that entire group that I met with and taking each one out for coffee every week. Estate attorneys, I felt like would be a great opportunity, um, to source commercial lenders.
Um, also sat down with 'em, so good mix of.
Jack Carr: Here's what I'm gonna challenge you on to do in the next month, please. Which I found to be absolutely an amazing source. Even though on, on the surface, they, they kind of come off to you as maybe private e or as a competition. I just give it away, but a private equity group, right?
So if, if you decide that you want to get into HVAC, just hypothetically, right? For anyone out there, I want to get into plumbing, go and find yourself a. A private equity group or a few private equity groups. Some of them, [00:08:00] you know, especially the smaller ones are more open to this, but the bigger ones tend to just, you know, do what everyone else doesn and like shoo you off.
Yeah. Yeah. But, right. A private equity group has a certain minimum that they're looking for, right? They're looking for a million dollar EBITDA business, or half a million dollar EBITDA business. They have their parameters in which they really don't go under. That being said, they're paying somebody for lead generation, right?
They're sending out mailers and they're calling and they're doing third party. They still get these leads, right? They still get these HVAC guys and plumbing guys who are ready to sell, but they're just like, Hey, I'm a $300,000 EBITDA HVAC company. I'm too small for you. Interesting. You know what they do with those leads?
Nothing, nothing. Just say, just sitting there. They say, Hey, hey buddy. Call me back in next year in February when you grow and, and we'll have this conversation later. Yeah. But that owner still wants to sell and wants to sell probably now. And so if you could. Get in close with them, and a few of these, these, [00:09:00] uh, private equity groups can say, Hey, you know, we're looking for this, this lead size that's much smaller than yours.
If you happen to get one, we'd be, we'd be willing to pay you for it. Um, they generally don't want any money as far as I've, I've used it as a lead source before and they kick the deals over, um, as kind of a friendly, we're all in the same industry type thing. Um, but that I, I would definitely challenge you to try and reach out to whatever industry is, is on your, your list this week, and try that.
Chris Barr: That is huge, man. I never even really thought about, you know, taking the table scraps from private equity groups, but man, I'll be the emerald lagasse of table scraps, man. I'll, I'll make a full meal outta that. So, no, I, I love where your head's at. I'm definitely gonna try that on this next week, and excited to let you know how it goes, man.
Jack Carr: Sweet. And so, so two weeks ago you, you did a drive along though, right? Mm-hmm. So you, you did go with an owner on, on a, yep. We can't do specifics obviously, because you're under NDA, but I mean, we should break down at least industry. Sure.
Chris Barr: Yeah. Um, pool servicing. So, um, you know, and again, can't. [00:10:00] Gotta be somewhat sensitive, but they do have, uh, you know, a pretty full service component.
They do obviously your standard, you know, chemical changes and
Speaker 3: cleaning.
Chris Barr: Mm-hmm. Um, they also do equipment installation and equipment sales as well as, you know, full pool remodel. So pretty soon to nuts on what they cover, um, in the pool service industry. Okay. So,
Jack Carr: yeah, that's interesting. 'cause I mean, we see a lot of routes.
We've talked to a lot of people who, who view the pool industry as just routes, routes, routes, routes, routes. And they do a really good job. But this is actually like. Uh, remodel, installation, uh, and like an actual construction component. Mm-hmm. Um, just percentage wise, what was that split? Because like I said, I don't want to to get too close.
Chris Barr: No, absolutely. Um, I think that they said, looking at my notes here, uh, they said this roughly about 30, 30, 30. Uh, and it might be a little bit more heavily skewed towards, um, the remodels and that kind of fluctuates 'cause those are their biggest jobs of the year. [00:11:00] So yeah, remodels, you know, that's gonna end up much more of their revenue.
Um, but they kind of have it pretty well compartmentalized. They say the routes generally kinda keep the lights on that, that pace for overhead. Both personally and professional. Again, we talk about expensing personal through the business, which you know, is its own issue. Yeah. But the fact that, you know, the route, which is again, what people view the pool business as and that's their most consistent component is keeping them afloat and it providing at least a break even.
And then that, you know, equipment sale, installation, remodels, things of that are really just kinda gravy on top. Um, and then the route component, as you mentioned, because the, those are so, so prevalent, especially down here in Florida. I see routes gonna for sale all the time. To me, what jumped out was scaling.
You know, if I get my arms around this thing and I, I have it operating well for, you know, three to five years and then wanna buy additional routes, absorb some of their staff.
Speaker 3: Mm-hmm. Kind of
Chris Barr: build it out from there, pretty, pretty easy business to scale from that perspective. [00:12:00] So again, that's, that's kind of where my head's at.
Jack Carr: So in terms of, um. Like why, why I, I mean, I get that their scale is probably within your price point. What, what was the, the big pros that stuck out to you and how does this exactly fit into your framework? I. A
Chris Barr: hundred percent, you know, um, it's a service related business, which was, I think mm-hmm. Kind of first and foremost really what I was looking for.
Um, and because one of the reasons I was looking for service base is, again, low overhead. And so I think that they definitely fall within, into that bucket. Um, especially considering the, the scale of the operation that they currently have. The fact that they keep overhead pre relatively low is, is impressed.
Their margins are pretty on point. Um, and it's, again, I wanted to be in service initially, had a love for home service. Got a bit more agnostic, but again, this falls within home service. Mm-hmm. And especially within home service. It, it, I, this was my mistake. Something I didn't know until the ride along is I.
Yeah, it's not something like HVAC in Florida, which is very much a need, not a want. You [00:13:00] can't not have hvac, you know, come August down in West Palm Beach or you're gonna be frying. Um, so I thought that pool servicing was more of a, a want based thing and kind of more of a luxury. But no, the way HOAs work down here, if you let your pool go green and you don't service it, um, someone's, someone's gonna find you.
Someone's gonna say something. Yeah. There is a more kind of need component established. I had initially thought,
Jack Carr: yeah, I mean, I'm, I'm mixed on those ones. 'cause I mean, I was a, a, uh, I mean, as yourself, we're probably the same age, a child, a teenager through the oh eight. Uh. You know, shut down of mm-hmm. Of everything in kind of one of the largest foreclosure markets in the, the United States.
And one of the, the two that I had on my list that I would never do though I looked at 'em like yourself, was pool routes, pool businesses, and landscaping. And those, the reason behind that was, I mean, as a 18-year-old kid, I think that the, um. The statue of, uh, li statue limitations. Is that the mm-hmm. [00:14:00] Word I'm looking for is, is expired.
I'm not gonna get in trouble for this, but like we were kids, we'd go around to all these foreclosed houses and the, like, the commonality in all of 'em, what we would look for is giant overgrown front yards and dirty pools that were nasty green and, and just like the, the grossest algae grown in the back.
And so that was always my worry, um, with those two. Was that in. If I'm, if I have to pick between heating, cooling or like cleaning my pool. And I'm on the edge of foreclosure. I'm probably not cleaning my pool even if like I'm risking the HOA fee, I'm maybe dumping a bottle of bleach in. But that being said, I, I definitely think it's one of the more sustainable sides in the sense that unless they're right there at foreclosure, which at that point they're probably not doing their HVAC either, to be honest, they're, they're probably buying a, a window unit and saying, giving the middle finger to the HOA and say, find me for the, the window [00:15:00] unit.
Like, it's one of those things where. If someone's on the edge of foreclosure, I don't think it actually matters which home service you run other than plumbing. Plumbing is what I've come back to as being like the, actually only one
Chris Barr: water finds away. Yeah. No, that, that's a, a heavy knee base. No. So I get what you're saying.
I think that that's really where my head was taking me as well. Yeah. Is, yeah, probably not as bulletproof as maybe plumbing or HVAC and I above that, but at the end of the day, it's something has to really, really, really go wrong and. At that point, if we are in another oh eight scenario, sure I can kind of fine tune which sector I'm in to really make myself as recession proof is absolutely possible.
Yeah. But if we're hitting another oh eight, everybody's gonna be struggling along with myself regardless of sector. So, you know, again, I, and I think that that's a really important, that's framework for the acquisition cycles is a lot of this gray area you love black and white. So you love, this is a deal killer.
This is a green light by here, but. You get so much in [00:16:00] this gray area of like, eh, it's not as bulletproof as this, but you know, if it is going down the tubes, everything's going with it. So you kind of end up back in this indecision land, which is a not a comfortable spot to be stuck in. Yeah,
Jack Carr: I think my only caveat to this is this is the unique.
Pool business. So I've looked at pool businesses. We've actually covered, John and I covered it on owned and operated pool businesses with Tim Ryan. The interesting part is that this isn't a route, a route, right? Mm-hmm. This is actually a decent portion of this is construction, it's remodel work, and I, I'm assuming, um, repair work.
So the repair work is probably a little bit more stable in the sense, but the remodel work, I would imagine is a nice. A nice to have. It sits along the same lines as construction and remodeling of your kitchen. Right? It's not something that you necessarily do. So that that one component I would say is.
Important to remember as you go through this process. In the same way that if I was buying any other home service company with a large construction aspect, I would [00:17:00] be very careful and my multiple would actually be a little bit lower. I wouldn't say like, you don't, you know, zero out the multiple, but if I was buying anything with construction.
Risk. It definitely receives, um, a second look for me, especially when I'm taking on debt, right? Because in the off chance that what we saw, um, a common one we saw is, is talking with people who took out large SBA loans for like construction, plumbing and construction, HVAC. The, the thing that we saw that was similar is like all of it ground to a halt in like 2022 for whatever reason, like there was potential.
A recession on the horizon and all the contracts grounded to a halt. And a few of my buddies who, who own these businesses, they said if they didn't have their loans structured in a certain way, they would've been absolutely wrecked. 'cause they can't sustain. Yeah. You know, a six month pay if you didn't finish any houses and get paid.
Whereas if you'd structure that deal more [00:18:00] from a. At least a portion, right? As a seller earning or a seller earnout or seller financing. Mm-hmm. Then you can eat a little bit more of that just because, hey, I can't give you, I can't, bank finances is the key. Right?
Chris Barr: Yeah. No, and I think that that's kind of, again, coming from that traditional commercial retail.
Background, I get seller financing. Financing is a totally new concept to me. You know, something I really read about back in like November, December when I was researching this process up front, I was like, oh, like that's really nice. Like I can have the, the seller cover a portion of this. And again, it incentivizes them to wanna strike a fair and equitable deal because again, they're earn out and their ability to get paid is based on.
You know, the health of the business maintaining. So, um, good way to insulate yourself from a little bit of risk there. So yeah, definitely something I will be looking into and would absolutely be a component of the pool business, you know, should I decide to move forward with that. Um, which kind of really brings us to the cons of, of that business.
Jack Carr: So before you start, I do have two more, more pros I [00:19:00] wrote down for these businesses. Yeah. So what I liked about this is your, the ideal client size. So on average they were, you know, multimillion dollar house clients. Mm-hmm. Which is huge. 'cause you know, as people have larger houses, they tend to be more well insulated from the market and from downturn.
So there is that kind of, um, extra added benefit. Um, they can handle the extra income or the extra costs associated with, uh. Owning those kind of luxury items and that's what it becomes a luxury item. So I really love that aspect. I liked, um, it's a highly fragmented, fragmented market. As you mentioned.
There's a lot of scale opportunity in the pool service industry. Um, I think the gentleman's name is Malcolm. I forget his last name, but he's down in Texas. Uh, he has a $15 million. Uh, rollup of, uh, service pool service routes. And he started a few years ago and has been doing an absolutely amazing job and [00:20:00] proving kind of the point of, hey, this is a fragmented market.
If you're able to bring scalability through systems, uh, if that's your strong suit, then there's a lot of opportunity to grab that. Um. And then I, you know, the, the pro and the con is the mix, right? Mm-hmm. Having kind of a big ticket item on the backend to be able to sell versus just, you know, I only do routes, which are, you know, $200 chemical cleaning or a hundred dollars a month cleanings.
And then. Uh, maybe I have to shock the pool and do all this kind of stuff, so for a little bit extra, but yours actually has a high ticket item, which is nice. It's the HVAC unit sale. It's the re-pipe, it's the, the big dig job. Mm-hmm. So that, that was a neat aspect where you could, as you work with customers, you can build those relationships and then eventually sell them the repair work.
Sure. So I, I love, I love, uh, home services that have like this, this small reoccurring and then a big ticket at the very end.
Chris Barr: Yes. And I [00:21:00] think that that was the biggest pro I saw in all of it too, is kind of this, you know, threefold range of services that they provide. Um, again, it gives me the consistency of the route, which again, I don't know that would want a hundred percent to be on there because I would like a bigger ticket item, um, you know, for some leverage.
But again, relying solely on, you know, a handful of these bigger projects come throughout the year. It's a little bit too concentrated for me. Yeah. So the fact that I kind of have a, a goldilock situation in the best of both worlds here, um, is attractive. And you made a great point about, um, you know, they've really, uh.
Fine tuned their ideal customer. He said, you know, we're here in Palm Beach, Mar-a-Lago.
Jack Carr: Hey, yo, the president's right, right
Chris Barr: across the Intercoastal, and they do have a handful of projects over on the island. He said, but when you get to $30 million homes, everybody's so paranoid that they're out to be had and the $300,000 home.
They feel like, you know, they really are pinching their pennies. The 3 million home just understands it's what needs to be done. They write the check. It's, it's very low hassle. So
Jack Carr: that's funny you mentioned that, [00:22:00] that that's a very true like theory that, that we see kind of across, you know, across industries.
Um mm-hmm. Alright, awesome. There's the pros why we like it. Yeah. Why don't you like pool services?
Chris Barr: You know, and this is, uh, you know, we've had a few conversations about expectations versus reality. And this is one I just kind of might have to get with the program a little bit. And, and also, I, I am not an accountant.
I'm not CPA, understanding the differences between 10 99 and W2. Labor is something I'm still fairly new to, but a lot of their employees are 10 99. Mm-hmm. And I feel like that's generally the case for a lot of services and especially home services business now. Again, if you, they're not truly independent, if you're directing them in any sort of way.
Mm-hmm. From my understanding, that should be W2, and I don't wanna expose myself to risk or to have to get whacked by the IRS down the road, but maybe that's like, Hey, it's not officially the way it's supposed to be done, but that's the way everybody does it. So you just kind of gotta. Learn to grin and [00:23:00] bear.
I don't know, but it is something that does give me pause about this business
Jack Carr: and as well as it should. So I, the, the framework that I utilize for looking at a business that has the 10 99 versus W2 conundrum is what is the actual I. You're right, right? If, if they're driving in your trucks and you're putting them on a schedule, uh, if they're wrapped with your logo and wearing your uniforms, they should be W2.
Um, but then you have situations like roofing contractors, most roofing contractors. The, the salespeople and the project managers, they're all working for the company, but all of the actual roofing installers and, and deconstruction people, they are all 10 99. Um, so you are telling them where to go, but they're not showing up in your trucks and they're not wearing your uniform.
They're just acting as, you know, labor. And so it's, it's this very fine line that you do run into. I think in pool businesses, you probably are, are making a good choice here. 'cause the way I look at it is. You want them in your branded [00:24:00] trucks, you want them with your uniform. Yeah. And then you have to schedule them where they're gonna go multiple times a day.
So my initial feeling, I'm not an expert in the pool of service industry, but is at least on the service side, those would definitely be W2 employees. Potentially on the construction side. You could sub out that labor, like the dig job and the tile work and all that kind of stuff would be subs 'cause it wouldn't make sense to keep it in house.
Um. But for your, your, your residential service and route a hundred percent W2. And with that, if they're 10 99 right now, and you have to convert them to W2, whether that's through you or through just, Hey, we're scaling. We've doubled the size of the business now it's actually a risk. Mm-hmm. Now there's an associated cost with that.
Yeah. And that's worker's
Chris Barr: comp insurance. Boom. Bingo. Yep. Yep. So and
Jack Carr: so it's okay to buy like this, in my opinion, as long as that you understand that you're pricing that in, you're pricing that conversion factor [00:25:00] in.
Chris Barr: Yes. Mm-hmm. And then again, that, that's a, that's a dollar amount. It's a line item
Jack Carr: at the end
Speaker 3: of the day.
Mm-hmm.
Chris Barr: And so, yeah, no, I'm really glad we were able to hash out here. 'cause it was something that I was starting to hear roamings on. I, I'm starting to hear rums on, I spoke to my accountant kind of fairly briefly on it, you know. Briefly enough to not be charged at least. Um, but yeah, I kind of got his two about those ones.
But yeah. Um, yeah, got his 2 cents and got this. Got the idea that these guys probably should be W2. Yeah. And again, that gave you pause and it's something don't have to refactor into pricing. So, you know, not a total deal killer, but you know, something to have eye on.
Jack Carr: The, the other part that I don't like about that in particular, the whole W2, is you actually, and this is, comes from Tim Ryan.
So he, Tim Ryan, for anyone who doesn't know, he's, he's a friend on Twitter. He's started and sold I think three. Plumbing bus or three plumbing, three pool route businesses and does a very good job. He's working on some SaaS for pool services right now. Great guy. Lots of good information, but he, his theory was that [00:26:00] the actual stickiness of the route service business for pools.
Is having the individuals in someone's backyard. It's a personalized experience where this person sometimes is going into your backyard unannounced. It's a relationship and you have to build these things, and so you really want it to be a branded experience where not only are they comfortable with the individual in the backyard who's locked in because they're a W2, but.
Also because you want them branded. 'cause you want them comfortable with you as the, the company. Yeah. And so I don't like that, that they're subbing out kind of a key part to the, the, the route side of the business. Mm-hmm. Is you want them to be invested and to be, um, to be a W2 employee and to care about your business because that's how you actually get the stickiness of the customer base.
Chris Barr: No, that makes total sense. And yeah, they, we did speak on the ride along a little bit about the trustability and like, again mm-hmm. [00:27:00] Going into, you know, people's backyards. He goes, you know, every now and then, you know, we had change labor I on a call. Like, oh, was there a new guy? Or whatever. And it, it doesn't sound like it's necessarily been an issue, but one thing he did bring up, and again, it's not a huge red flag, but he is like, you know, I, I was driving the route, I was checking in on these customers.
I was popping, you know, not unannounced. You know, do a, do a service, check myself just to again, be owner, you know, face in front of 'em. He is like, and I don't anymore. He is like, but if you were to buy this business, I would definitely recommend, you know, dedicated some hours. Mm-hmm. So that, which I'd be, you know, more than happy to do.
Um, and so I think that, you know, again, that could be mitigated with if there is a labor changeover. Going with them the first time saying, Hey, it's me again. You know, this, you know, is Joe Blow. He is gonna be, you know, the new service tech seeing you guys every week. So I just wanted to make the introduction myself, you know, uh, the brilliance and the basics.
You know, a little bit of, you know, fundamental relational ability. I think it's smooth some of that over. And again, you are gonna have difficulties keeping and holding labor in any sector. So, while it is somewhat of an [00:28:00] issue in this particular business, again, with the trustability being in someone's backyard.
There is some mitigation factors there. And again, how much worse off am I gonna be in this sector versus others? Difficult sec.
Jack Carr: Yeah. Was there, were there any other giant cons that you saw in this specific business or in the pool industry itself?
Chris Barr: Yeah, you know, um. Industry-wise, again, it was something that, I'm from Illinois, we know we don't have, I know you're Southern California.
We don't have pools in Illinois. It's cold up there, man. Yeah. So, um, you know, it just really wasn't something I really considered. Um, the way that, you know, HVAC and, and others are, are such a pressure washing, you know, again, we have, we have those up north, but, um, so the industry as a whole, again, I see that it's mostly route based and I wouldn't want that, the fact that this is, you know, threefold businesses in one.
It kind of mitigates it. Uh, I would say that there was a big bump, uh, in SDE numbers, and we've talked about this, um, and expensing stuff through the business, um, [00:29:00] versus just eating the taxes like you should, and this is what I want your 2 cents on. 'cause again, uninformed, uneducated, I'm, I'm learning here, but to me it was a little bit of a net positive of, okay, hey listen, if you're.
Expensing new parts for your boat and putting it on the business. If you're expensing, you know, home repairs or whatever through the business to avoid paying taxes, well that's just additional SDE to me. Well, all that means that the business is doing better than we can see, and then I'm gonna be then receiving a.
These fruits at the end of the year versus them getting spent on erroneous personal stuff. So it's kind of all gravy on top from what I was seeing. But as you said, all those dollars expensed are worth four to me, and I would just love a little bit more context. Yeah.
Jack Carr: So we, we talked about this offline and, and I want to be clear with, with everybody listening, is that you and the seller are naturally in an adverse position because any.
Dollar that they can put into the business that you are paying for. If you're paying on a multiple basis, a 3, 2, 3, [00:30:00] 4, multiple, you're paying two, three, or four times that dollar that came through the business. And so my saying always is, is actually kind of how you look at it. It's great, you know, there's extra SDE, there's extra net, there's extra money in this business that should come out of expenses when I buy it.
But the big, but here, don't pay for that. Right. Because for them to have to prove that they would have to provide me every single receipt, that's possible. And then on the back side of this is. Uh, the saying goes, this is a very common saying in the industry. If they'll lie to the IRS, they'll lie to you.
Yeah. And so it, it's, it's verify and check and verify and check, but I wouldn't take a single dollar a, you know, towards the purchase price if that was considered an add back that they're trying to add back. Like, oh, I added back 30,000 that I, you know, used on my car. It's like, well. Provide every receipt and every gas and, and every slip.
Yeah, because I don't trust [00:31:00] that, number one. Number two, if you're using the business as like a personal slush fund, I don't actually trust any of your numbers anymore. I've lost all my, my trust for your accounting because you can, once you run a business as I, like I do ever in multiple. You realize how easy that is.
It is so easy to tell your bookkeeper, oh, this Venmo account that, or this Venmo purchase was for a subcontractor, when really it was for something else. Like that's the extent of the lie. And you are eating that at the tune of 30, 40, $50,000 times 2, 3, 4, multiple.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Jack Carr: And. You know, if you're paying for that and it's a lie, you're gonna get smashed, absolutely smashed.
And I think if they'll lie to you, sorry. If they lie to the IRS, they'll lie to you because lie because there's a chance. And when they lie to the IRS that they're going to jail or getting a fine, when they lie to you, they, the risk is, hey, they'll make mon more money. Probably one of the most important decisions you can make in your ETA journey is which SBA [00:32:00] lender.
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Chris Barr: Yeah. Yeah. And so that was kind of my, and I'm totally with you there, in that, hey, if I'm not taking anything outta hopes and dreams here, you know?
Yeah. You're just telling me like, Hey, this one was actually for, you know, this person looks back. It's like, okay, great. Again, my response to that is show me the receipts.
Jack Carr: Yep.
Chris Barr: You know, like, that's, that's totally fine, but. [00:33:00] Show me the receipts and show, show me the receipts.
Jack Carr: Yeah. And then, uh, what I would do mentally, it, you know, it still could be a great business.
Like the, the owner could legitimately say, Hey, this is actually my slush fund. I used only this amount for this items. Mm-hmm. Stop hard, stop there. And they're being truthful. There's a, there's definitely a chance there's good people out there. I'm not saying that they're all bad. Um, but what I would definitely mentally put into play is saying.
During due diligence process, during like where we're actually verifying and, and paying accountants to go through with a fine tooth comb to check, definitely pay for the higher packages, the higher packages that make sure that the quality of earnings are good and that the expenses match up and that all of the, the money out and the money in tracks perfectly to what they're saying.
It tracks two deposits are right. Um, expenses are correct because. Like I said, what you'll see is, is more times than not is if they can hide money here or there, push it there or there. You, they'll [00:34:00] just naturally do it. And it might not even be, to be honest, it might not even be, um, malicious that just, Hey, I forgot I expensed a $6,000 bathroom remodel on my house through the business.
Chris Barr: Yeah. And what, what I'm thinking of how, again, thinking of how I would play this one potentially. There was a bit of a revenue drop in and s more of an SDE drop. Um. Due to high cogs and stuff like that in 2023, and they're asking about if like a four x deal. And so I'm thinking of taking really their past like three or four years averaging that SDE out and saying, Hey, listen, I'll offer you four X based on this more average doubt number.
They're saying that the 2024, again, it's the classic story, if they didn't plan on selling until 2024, so 2024 is. Numbers and everything look great. Um, and me saying, and listen, we're not gonna go four X based on 2024. Like that doesn't really give me a full picture. Let's average out the past three or four years and I'll give you a [00:35:00] four x or 3.5 x based on that.
And then they say, well, this year's lower because of all these, you know, slush fund expenses. It's like, okay, cool. Then ver we verify the receipts. Or you take the, you know, the four x, the average, because that's what I can verify on a tax return. So. Yeah. So
Jack Carr: is, is that, was that their explanation for the low SDE year?
Was that
Chris Barr: in 2020? It's, it's a combination of that and then they, uh. Be careful of NDA stuff. They added a component. They added a component of their remodel business.
Jack Carr: Okay, fair enough. Um,
Chris Barr: that they didn't previously have that, um, required a big upfront purchase of materials, which cut into cogs, which also, yeah, and
Jack Carr: there's easy ways to verify that too, right?
You can go in and you can look at gross margins. Um, gross margins for high expense years shouldn't change. And then finding those expenses in what area should be a fairly easy task. So that's where it focuses is revenue. Gross margins because you generally, people [00:36:00] don't, you know, there, there's no changes to the cogs themselves.
That's the health of the business. You're looking at labor materials and gross revenue. Like that's the health of the business. Yeah. Um, to get your gross margin. And if their gross margin has kind of stayed consistent, but their expenses are changing, then that story, right. It kind of works out better because your gross margin shouldn't change year to year.
Um. Yeah. Unless like, hey, there's a health issue with the business, or, Hey, the built business is doing healthier 'cause we put this, this, and this initiative into play.
Chris Barr: Yeah. Okay. That makes sense. So, um, that's something I can, uh, sweet go back and verify pretty easily. And then revenue to me is, again, it's hard to, that's the one thing that feels like it's hard to lie about.
It's hard to BS revenue. Like if you did the sales. You did the sales, but you didn't. You didn't. Um, yes. And again, I could be wrong
Jack Carr: there. Yes and no. So, yeah. Yes. Right. And the way I always look at it in the same sense to your point is it's [00:37:00] actually harder to generate more revenue. It's easier to cut expenses, right?
So it's easier to say, Hey, you know, we're just getting rid of this program Slack, now we're going to Google teams for half the price, or whatever. Mm-hmm. Um, like that's an easy transition, which will save you money on your backend. That being said, um. You have to be careful because when you look at businesses, what, what I've seen, which is a commonplace, is you'll see a business that does $7 million, then it does $8 million.
But you see that bottom line, like do huge fluctuations, and you go, whoa, what changed? And then you look at it and, and it's like, oh, you've tripled the ex, the, the marketing expense this year. Mm-hmm. It took them three X marketing to get a million more dollars in revenue, that that's not a healthy system they have in place in the marketing.
So they're destroying their net to try and keep the revenue the same. Mm-hmm. You see what I'm saying? So like that's the watch out is Yes. Revenue is almost, [00:38:00] it's not king. 'cause obviously EBITDA is the king of all of this. Mm-hmm. Sure. That being said, though, revenue is an important metric. You just have to make sure that, that the revenue.
Is steady with the systems in place that are also healthy.
Speaker 3: Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Jack Carr: Because if they're, if they're zeroing out net just to hit the same revenue, it's like, why would you, you wouldn't do that. It's a no, no. Silly idea. That makes
Chris Barr: total sense. Um, yeah, and I think in that regard, I mean, I, I would obviously need to go back and check, but I'm pretty sure that, again, marketing efforts, labor efforts have stayed fairly consistent as their revenue's gone up.
But again, I, and also. It's
Jack Carr: within. A great way to check that, by the way, is just ask them for it as a percent of revenue. So that's how we do it internally in our business, is we manage that by making sure that it as a percent of revenue, it stays consistent. Right? So we spent 10% on marketing this year. We spent 11% next year, and we spent 10% the third year.
And that way, you know, hey, their system is, is a system, right? Because yeah, they're. The, the revenue's going [00:39:00] up, but their marketing is staying the same. And what that allows you to do it as a healthy business right, is you just scale. You turn up your marketing, your revenue turns up, you turn up your, your vehicle expenditures, your revenues turning up, or your revenue turns up, then your vehicle expenditures turns up backwards.
But still, it's like that's a healthy business versus, um, if you start to see like. Big waves inside certain expense rates like you go. Okay, well that's super weird. Why is that really high this year?
Chris Barr: Yeah. And I like the analogy you, um, you know, may have, you know, if you see a big wave and again, surfer, so I like any kind of wave analogy.
But, um, you know, I would say that you're gonna inevitably see waves and you expect those, there's growing. Mm-hmm. As you're doing more revenue, as you're growing your business, you're gonna start doing things a bit differently, changing up practices a little bit. So you're gonna see some variant, but how, what's the size of the wave where we.
Put a red flag on it, you know? Um, well, my
Jack Carr: point is though, like actually the wave [00:40:00] itself is the red flag really Just, just because, I mean, hear me out, right?
Speaker 3: Mm-hmm.
Jack Carr: What you're buying in a business is you're buying the systems you're buying like. You're buying. You could go out and spend a million, pretend this business is a million dollars.
I don't know how much it's, you could go out and spend a million dollars on a buy verse build kind of the idea of buy verse build. If you spent a million dollars, you would probably build a pretty solid business. Maybe not the same, but decently close. A nice, you buy the buy side business because it's. A business in a box, all the systems are in place.
I show up, yes, I have to do certain things that the owner did, but systematically, right, everything is somewhat in place so that I can step in, continue that system and continue that same revenue and therefore I can turn that knob up on that system and then the revenue turns up or vice versa. Yeah, so like if you see giant swings, for example, in like vehicle.
Maintenance [00:41:00] costs, and then they'll say, oh, well we had a bunch of old vehicles and that the old vehicles are breaking down. We had to buy transmissions and motors. Like that's the reason for the expense. And then my, my answer to that is like, well, that means you don't have a system in place to either do maintenances properly or your vehicles are all old, which was, I bought a vehicle like this, so I'm not like talking shit.
Your vehicles are all old and they all suck. So. You don't have a system, you just have a bunch of old vehicles that you're patching whenever they break down versus like, Hey, oh, we have a leasing program where we turn 'em in every three years so that that doesn't happen. Right. That's a system is like a leasing program on fleet, which every five years they recycle out so that you don't have huge expenditures.
You just have this same like. 10% of revenue every, every year for, for fleet. You see what I'm getting at right there? Like, so No, I do see what you're saying. That so wave is, is the issue sometimes.
Chris Barr: No, and I, I, I, that does make sense. And now as you're pointing out that specific vehicle example, I'm like, thinking of [00:42:00] this pool service business.
I'm like, yeah, I don't like the way they do vehicle maintenance specifically. Like it's, it's, again, it's, it's not, it's not systemized. Um, so again. Bringing myself back to, I'm not really buying an SDE, I mean I am, but to really think of it as I'm more buying systems, um, is a really, really good perspective to have, which kind of cuts through a lot of the fat and makes you unglued to that kind of bottom line number that I know we can all, you know, fall into glued sometimes.
So
Jack Carr: that being said though, right on this entire conversation, there's never a perfect business 'cause you know why? They wouldn't sell it. Right. If it was a perfect, easy to run business, that was like cranking out money, no problems at every system. Perfect. They wouldn't, they wouldn't fucking sell it. I'm gonna cuss on this podcast.
They wouldn't fucking sell it. That's the answer. Well, no,
Chris Barr: it's, it's like they wouldn't sell it again. You know, I, I can hope for that. Wait for the owner to have a heart attack and then, you know, they are in a distressed situation and need to sell like. You know, but again, like I can't sit on my [00:43:00] hands and just like wait for this unrealistic opportunity to fall through.
So it's at that point, it's a question of how much hair. Do I tolerate on a deal?
Jack Carr: Yep. You know, and I think that's a personal thing. I mean, my, my, you know, I mean, I work in frameworks, I work in themes and, and kind of these generalistic ideas. And for me, the, the big, the big caveat on how much hair you would are willing to take on a deal as someone who has taken a deal with all of the hair is like the
Chris Barr: atch of the deal.
Yeah.
Jack Carr: All it comes down to, at the end of the day, that in my mind is. Is it going to sink the, like, is it going to sink you as an owner because you're taking on hundreds of thousands, if not a million plus dollars in debt if sb up to $5 million in debt, right? And so with that, like that's life changing. If it goes wrong, I don't care how you cut, it's not the end of the world.
Don't, don't hurt yourself. But, um. Like it is life changing. You can lose [00:44:00] business. You're personally guaranteed. You can lose your house, you can lose real estate, you can lose all of these things. Yeah. And so my big watch out to you isn't like, don't buy a deal with hair. It's don't buy a deal with hair that's going to sink your ship.
Um, yeah,
Chris Barr: and I think that that, and we, we talked about this a little bit, um, and it's like, it's. Weird thumb being like all vulnerable on camera. It's a weird thing for me to talk about, you know, again, what my family does with their portfolios kind well has in the past been really that's their business.
This is my business. But as I mentioned, you know, I was tapped at very, very recently to potentially come on and help out with the family portfolio. So would really come to my opportunity cost when it comes to acquisitions. So, you know, kind of having to take that into account as I make a decision here.
Um, but then also, you know, looking at that. Kind of macro picture in regards to that portfolio and kind of doing those numbers. It on a good note. It took a lot of the pressure off wanting to buy a business and wanting to put pedal to metal again. Uh, still [00:45:00] meeting the jack positions goal up. I'd like to have something bought one year, not, I'm not ghost on you man, but at the same time, um, it, it really hammered at home that it's would just be unwise for me to really push myself into a deal.
Again, not that anything's ever gonna be perfect, but to push myself into something that really wasn't a great fit. Yeah. Because you can make a lot of these businesses work. You know, I could buy something that had, again, you bought a, the SAS watch deal with all the hair on it and you made it work just fine.
I, I'm confident that I could do the same, but it really feels like that's not a wise decision when. The global kind of macro picture looks pretty good. Um, so again, I'm to plug you with, there's,
Jack Carr: there's two sides. Rich Jordan talks about this a lot, which I love, and it, it's just, it rings true for me, is the worst deal you're ever gonna make is your first one.
And once you come to, to grips with that, that's wonderful because you have to pay to actually play the game. You have to pay to, to join whatever home service team or restaurant or whatever you're buying. You gotta [00:46:00] play to get in. And then once you're in you, you create this network around you that actually gives you, it feeds opportunities.
So, mm-hmm. I would never have gotten opportunity two, three, or four if I never bought opportunity one. Yeah. That being said. Right. Like, it doesn't mean opportunity one was great for me. It was a very difficult time. It was a very difficult opportunity with lots of hair. Um, whereas if I would've bought something else, I would've been way, way better off.
That being said, I would've never have been able to scale and run a business and have this podcast and do fun things, uh, because you have to pay to play. And so it's this, this really kind of balancing act that you have to balance to answer the question of like perfect fit versus expectations. Wow.
That's why I leave it at this kind of gray area of don't let it ruin your life, but you're gonna overpay and it's gonna be a hardship. At some point you're gonna wish you bought a better deal. But like that. Once you get to, once you grow out of that, and once you get past like the, [00:47:00] the SBA debt portion of your headache, then it's fine again.
And so. You know, a lot, we get asked a lot like the, this kind of dovetails nicely into another question that we get asked a lot is like, should I pay off an SBA loan right away? Like, how do I pay off an, like, when do I pay off an SBA loan? Yeah. Paying off SBA loans like five years, two years. And I remember asking Twitter on my one year, like, I'm one year in, should I dump all this money into paying off my SBA loan?
And I was told by a very smart individual, a mentor of mine, he said, WI Jack, don't worry about the loan. Pay off or put the money towards growth initiatives because the minute that you outgrow your SBA debt. Where it's not really an issue anymore. You, you're, you're generating enough money that the SBA debt is just such a small percentage of your total revenue, then it's not a big deal anymore.
Like it really isn't. So the, I mean, if, if, I'm gonna be frank, we pay $10,000 a [00:48:00] month towards SBA, would I love $10,000 a month to pay for something else? Yes. But do I worry about making my loan every month? No. Like, it's just part of what we build into our break even point. We have to hit that every month.
But it's, it's like, whereas before month six of owning a business, I was like, oh crap, this, you know, this isn't gonna be that service. It's, it's March. I made 60,000. Like, and that's gross. Like this is rough. Like I have to, I'm not paying myself this month 'cause I gotta make SPA, but once you put all that money, when you get it into growth initiatives, you get so big that that little piece is so small now that it's not a big deal.
Chris Barr: Man, that makes a lot of sense. And again, there's a ton of overlap between, you know, the commercial real estate acquisition process and small business acquisition. But there's a ton of huge differences and that is a major one of like, again, we slap everything on like a 25 year amortization and like a five year balloon note.
Yeah. You know, a pay minimal debt service, which kinda like hang out, you know, this is a whole component of like, you can rush it, you can put everything [00:49:00] towards SBA a debt, people do it. Um, but also with a piece of commercial real estate, you can't really scale it and put into growth initiatives to really get the business and the income stream to outsize the debt to a point where you're really not worried.
Like that's not an option. So the biggest par never thought it that way.
Jack Carr: Yeah. The biggest parable would be like a small, like duplex or triplex that you remodel. You buy it, you know, you buy on, on a mortgage, you know, debt of a thousand bucks and the, the. The s or excuse me, the mortgage was a thousand bucks, but the rental income from the duplex was 1200.
It's like, oh shit, if, if the water heater breaks, it's coming outta my pocket. But then you remodel it, you up rent to, you know, $2,000 a unit and it's, it's, you know, cash flowing $3,200 a month. Now you're like, okay. Do I need to, and I have a 3% interest rate 'cause I refinanced in 2020. Now I'm like, I don't need to pay this off.
Like, I'm just gonna leave it. Yeah. There's no point in trying to rush the mortgage on it because like the, the, the, I [00:50:00] mean, you're kind of capped, which sucks. Yeah. So you can only put so much into it, but at some point you're like, it's, it's just part of, it's it's income producing debt and so I'm just gonna leave it until it pays itself off.
Chris Barr: Sure. And I think that's another really kind of inspiring component of the small business acquisition process. You know, com, again, compared to the real estate, is what you kind of just described with duplex that is like a classic textbook value add opportunity.
Speaker 3: Mm-hmm.
Chris Barr: Um, you know, and I'll buy something that I can, you know, add much value to and you know, so on and so forth.
Um, it's essentially buying a piece of crap and making it not a piece of crap, you know? Um, but in small business it's crazy because with this whole buy versus build. Concept, everything's a value add opportunity. You know, I'm not buying the perfect strip center on Maine and Maine and saying, how can I add value to this piece of real estate?
Like you can't, like it's kind of capped out at whatever value could be added to it. But with a small business, even if they've got really solid systems in place, even if you know you're buying something that's already. [00:51:00] Really, really well functioning. There's always space and room to adjust to, to turn the knobs and to crank something up to continually add value.
So that kind of limitless ceiling on a value added opportunity when you're really not buying a piece of crap in the first place again, is, uh, you know, it's motivating, it's exciting. So
Jack Carr: there's nothing like hosting a acquisition show about buying companies and then just calling 'em, buying pieces of crap.
That's, we should change the name, dude.
Chris Barr: Shit.
Jack Carr: No, it's you, you, you come up with a love for it, but that's awesome. I'm excited. So what's on the docket for this upcoming couple weeks? Like what are you focusing on? What, what do you think that we should expect to see from you, uh, next month?
Chris Barr: Calling some private equity firms.
That's for, yeah. Um, so no, honestly, and as I said, with me feeling like there's been a slow down of, um. Fresh listings that I'm seeing, that I'm excited about. Um, I can't tell you. Well, you know, I guess I will, uh, by refreshing the broker network, I'm reaching out and just [00:52:00] doing some personalized calls there and staying steady on that is always components.
So I'll definitely continue to hit that. But I'm honest to being totally, frankly, I'm not holding out a lot of hope for what brokers gonna come with, uh, through within the next couple weeks. So again, private equity, love where I'm gonna take that. Um. Again, cold outreach via the d and b to talk to individual business owners, um, to actually s 'cause again, the networking is great and I think it's a great long-term play, but it's not getting any opportunities in front of me right now.
Mm-hmm. And that's what I'm really feeling a thirst for. So, um, I think ramping up the cold calls on actual legitimate businesses rather than people who can potentially connect me with businesses, um, is gonna be my other main push. So, pe direct outreach to. Legitimate businesses, not just people within their network.
And then refreshing the broker network because that's always, you gotta
Jack Carr: always do it. Yeah. Sweet. Awesome. Well, I appreciate it, Chris. Thank you for your time this week. This was awesome. It's good to hear what you're doing and I'm so excited for [00:53:00] next week. If you, if, if a reminder for anyone who wants to reach out and get ahold of you, where can they find you to send you awesome businesses that they have found in South Florida that they think would be a great place for you to look at?
Yeah,
Chris Barr: we say there's not a perfect opportunity, so somebody drops into my inbox thanks to this podcast. But, uh, it is Chris C-H-R-I-S at KC Acquisition Partners. Dot com. You can also Google or go to kc acquisition partners.com. That's our website. Checks us out. Um, yeah, hope to hear from some, uh, fans.
That's the letter fans.
Jack Carr: That's the letter K and the letter C, correct. Not K. Yes. Perfect. KC Yeah. Awesome guys. Well, thank you for listening this week. If you have any questions, comment them in the, uh, notes below. Leave us five stars wherever you review and head over to owned and operated.com. Check out the workshops and the groups.
There so much going on over there that, that I'm. Speak on once a week as well and, and absolutely love. Thank [00:54:00] y'all.
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