In this episode of Owned and Operated, we’re exploring how to grow your career inside a home service company. From internal promotions to mindset shifts, John and Brandon Niro break down what it really takes to move up and lead.
Brandon shares how 30–40% of the Wilson team has been promoted from within—and what separates those who grow fast from those who stall. They dig into Wilson’s 52-week Emerging Leaders program, the role of emotional intelligence and financial literacy, and how team members can take initiative to become future leaders.
If you’re looking to grow your role or build leadership in your team, this one’s packed with real, actionable advice.
🔹 In This Episode, We Cover:
How to get promoted inside a home service business
What Wilson looks for in future leaders
The Emerging Leaders program: structure and impact
Why a growth mindset and proactivity matter
How communication and responsibility open doors
Transparency around career progression at Wilson
🌐 More resources: ownedandoperated.com
👤 Hosted by:
John Wilson
👤 Guest:
Brandon Niro
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215 Transcript
John Wilson: [00:00:00] Today we're talking about how to get promoted. This is what career advancement looks like at Wilson, but also just to the external world. Here's how we think about recruiting leaders. 30 or 40% of the team has been promoted through the organization.
Brandon Niro: Do you have a passion to lead? I. And do you have passion to want to do more and take more responsibility?
Because great success in your role doesn't automatically translate to great success as a leader.
John Wilson: Welcome back to Owned and Operated. Today on the show I have Brandon Niro, president of Wilson. Welcome back. Welcome back. Welcome to Welcome Back. Round to This'll Be Good. Uh, today we're talking about how to get promoted. So this is, um, kind of a fun topic. We haven't done this yet, I think, ever on the show.
So the idea here, like who we're thinking about explaining this to or, uh, sort of sending this episode to is [00:01:00] our own internal team. Hey, this is what career advancement looks like at Wilson. This is how you can think about getting promoted. Uh, but also just to the external world, here's how we think about recruiting leaders.
Brandon Niro: I think it'd be cool too to talk like through the. Ultimate tier. Right? Not even just leaders, but how do you work, like when we're talking about apprentices, right? How do they fast track through? Oh yeah, yeah. All the way up and through into that leadership style. 'cause it's. It's very clear that the ones that have, especially from field side, like some of 'em have been apprentices with us, so mm-hmm.
It'd be interesting.
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Brandon Niro: So where do you wanna start? I mean, why don't we start like right at the beginning, right. Apprentice, like straight in that field. Baseline, right? Yeah. So I guess for me, so I started today as an apprentice. Oh, okay. I won't use names, but I'm gonna, I'm thinking of somebody specifically on our electric team who's just like a shy example of that, right?
Mm. And he came in actually even before apprenticeship, knew nothing about the trades at all. Uh, pretty sure was in nursing or something along those lines, medical field. Uh, but wanted to get in the trades. Mm-hmm. It was interesting to see someone like this because they were wildly [00:03:00] motivated to learn and they started the warehouse.
John Wilson: Yes.
Brandon Niro: Was, you know, getting to know the parts, understanding how the trades operate in general. Uh, but from day one he made it very clear, and I think that's kind of the underlining that you'll see across every, every single person thing we'll see is they made it very clear their goal was to progress through the company.
Yeah.
John Wilson: Yeah. Yeah. I think something like we should get the actual percentage. I bet we could pull this report on Paylocity. Yeah. But something like 30 or 40% of the team has been promoted through the organization. Yeah. And at this point, every single person on the team that is in a senior leadership position started lower.
Yeah. No one was recruited in just for that. Wow. That is kind of crazy. I'm thinking through every single person. Yeah. It's kind of wild. Yeah. We've really, I would say in the last year and a half have really matured. Mm-hmm. And I, I still think we have a long way to go, but I think we've really matured like upward mobility inside the business.
Yeah. [00:04:00] Where there's more of a clear path Now I think where we need to get better is like. Displaying it. Yes. Like putting it on the wall. Like here's where, and we're actively working on that. Like, your future with Wilson. Yeah. Um, yeah. We, we have like people in leadership that were apprentices three years ago.
Yeah.
Brandon Niro: Yeah. And at, at the time. Like I said, when it's not clearly documented, the part of the challenge is not only do they have to clearly want it, they have to very clearly say they want it. Yes. And make that known. Otherwise, there, there is not currently a very clear path to get there. Right. So the ones that have to date have been very outspoken in their career ambitions.
Right? So it would be interesting to see what that looks like for someone who maybe doesn't know who to voice it to or how to voice that. Um, but shows a clear intention or a desire to grow. So
John Wilson: that'd be interesting. Yeah. So I think the lesson there is like, wherever you are inside the organization, like if you want to grow Yep.
Communicate it.
Brandon Niro: Yes. Communicate it. Make it known. Yeah. And, and like you said, the [00:05:00] cool part specifically with us is that our leadership team has come from there, so they've gone through this. So reaching out to your managers super easy because they've also gone through that process. Yeah. Almost all of our frontline leaders were promoted.
Yeah.
John Wilson: So
Brandon Niro: they can be the
John Wilson: mentor that, yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Brandon Niro: Yeah. But with him specifically, right. Uh, through the, the, uh, warehouse understood the materials mm-hmm. Got in the apprenticeship and, you know, I think in a stereotypical apprenticeship, you expect several years, maybe even four or five years to become a competent, um, whatever it is.
Electrician, plunger. Yeah. Uh, but he excelled extremely fast through it. But that was, again, on intentional, intentionally asking to get outta the warehouse into apprenticeship. Then routinely in the apprenticeship asking to do more. Yeah. Asking him to get hands on tools, asking his leads to step outta the way and let him do the installs.
And they confirmed that he is doing it, correct. Mm-hmm. It was very intentional, I think, throughout that entire process of, let me do more, show me how to do more, uh, which I thought was
John Wilson: really cool. Uh, I [00:06:00] think I can think of a couple examples of an HVAC that Yeah. You know, their apprenticeship was under a year Yeah.
To lead, which like that is fast. That's fast. But again, I think the underlying one of that, they pushed sound like broken record. They pushed Yeah. We didn't have to push.
Brandon Niro: Yeah. That already pulled. Yeah. I think the, the put the ladder out clearly makes sense, but I almost enjoy that, you know, if it's, if the ladder's there, you still have to push.
Right? But like the path on where to push is more clear. But I think. That's always gonna be what I'm gonna look for is someone who's pushing for it. I don't wanna have 'em pull somebody into it. I want them to have the desire to do it. Yeah. And then we will, we'll show you the way
John Wilson: I think the alternative, and I'm just putting this out there, and this is definitely one of the reasons why I think we can improve.
Mm-hmm. Like, you know, we had someone put in their, uh, their resignation earlier this week mm-hmm. To go to a position that we have Yes. And that we would've hired for Yeah. If he had expressed his interest.
Brandon Niro: Yeah.
John Wilson: And so now we're obviously trying to like, work on that and like, you know, bring him into that.
But. Um, I think that is one of the benefits of like [00:07:00] a well laid out ladder. Yeah. Is like, Hey, here's where you can go so that people understand like, Hey, I don't have to leave to go pursue my next career opportunity. Like we have 170 people in this building. There is another seat that you can fill if you want to.
Yeah. Yeah. That's true.
Brandon Niro: Yeah. I think the, again, the clear path to the ladder makes sense. Right? And how do you display that maybe even before somebody's looking, just how do we make that known publicly that there is paths forward. Yeah. Yeah. Um. Yeah. And then the other part of that too is the kinda the beauty of like our task pay process, right?
Is if you don't want leadership, there's still a clear path to advance your life financially too. So it's not like the only path forward is, is management. Yeah. You can move into just a highly compensated
John Wilson: position. Individual contributor. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Almost more so. I mean that is the path to more,
Brandon Niro: yeah.
Yeah. Um, yeah. So on the. Through apprenticeship. Right. At that point it's, there's really not a knowledge gap I'm looking for. Or if you know, do you [00:08:00] have the capabilities to do so? It's the, it's a, you know, you don't want capacity to do it. Mm-hmm. Do you want it is really what I'm looking for. Do you have the desire to grow, uh, do you have the capacity to grow?
You probably don't get it yet 'cause you don't really know what the position entails, but to your desire to learn it, is there?
John Wilson: Yeah.
Brandon Niro: Uh, I think where that starts to change is the lead into some form of fan, uh, some form or fashion of a management role. Right. Then I'm looking for what are your instincts in the field?
It's, mm-hmm. You kinda have to, you don't really get it yet, but you're doing things inadvertently that are clear displays of leadership, or you're trying to understand.
John Wilson: Yeah. Like you're trying to be thoughtful about, mm-hmm. You know, maybe like 1 0 1 stuff, but like stuff you can control, like waste on jobs or like, are the apprentices needed or.
Yeah. I, I think being a little thoughtful and, and maybe like stepping slightly outside of yourself is, is probably the best way to put that. Like someone that would be, I, I would not consider immediately for a leadership position. Mm-hmm. [00:09:00] Like if every single time I'm talked to them, they're only focused on their very narrow scope of vision.
Like, that's amazing. Like, you're gonna be an amazing individual contributor, but if you can't see past. Just you Yeah. For the team or the company or the other teams that are impacted by whatever you're doing that day. Uh, that's, that's hard to train.
Brandon Niro: Yeah. I agree. And I think that's a clear indicator too, from the leadership class that we have right now.
Yeah. Is everybody in that group, is that type of person to where it's very clear, you can see in the warehouse in the morning. Right. They're not just worried about their materials and their job. They're checking on their teammates. They're the ones mm-hmm. Pushing everybody out the door. Yeah. They're the ones.
Kinda being the rah rah in the morning. Mm-hmm. And they, it wasn't, you know, they weren't in the leadership class yet. They were chosen because of that. And they're the people making sure that the young ones who are fresh out of apprenticeship and into leads, you know, feel good in the morning. They got their stuff.
Mm-hmm. Uh, they're set up, maybe they walk through a job with them, take a look through the photos with them, just kind of help them feel comfortable. Um, [00:10:00] they weren't asked to do that. And that to me is that, that's a clear indicator of, okay, you have leadership potential and you don't even, you may not even know that you're not doing that to.
Display not, you know, trying to show off your skillset to somebody. That's just a, you have a genuine passion to make sure that your team is set up for success and you're not even directly benefiting from it yet. Mm-hmm. Um, clear again, clear indicator from everybody we have in the class right now is
John Wilson: Yeah.
Is exactly that. Let, let's talk about the emerging leaders class. 'cause I think that might help like a explain it a little bit. Yeah. So what, what, what is the emerging leaders class? Yeah. When did we start it? What, what's inside it? Why do we do it? So we started it the
Brandon Niro: first, uh. Cohort of that was in February of this year.
Mm-hmm. Uh, it's a 52 week class, so year long. And it is intended to go through the one oh ones of leadership. Now. It goes into depth from everything from emotional intelligence to just the basics of what's the difference between leadership and management. Mm-hmm. So those are two very distinct portions.
Uh, and you have to be good at both of them. We get [00:11:00] financial literacy conversation. Uh, a deep understanding of what financial statements are, things like a p and l. How does, you guys are breaking out p and ls right now. Yeah, it's cool 'cause they get to touch a real life p and l.
John Wilson: Yeah. I think you said they're, they're like working with our May p and l Yeah.
And like some decision making and, yeah, they do here, like we missed on gross margin. So like, how would you touch materials?
Brandon Niro: Yeah. They're, they're actively participating alongside our current leadership team. Uh, in June working on May's p and l. Okay. Here was the issues and here's the resolutions we're putting in place in June mm-hmm.
To solve those. So it's cool that they get hands on with that, right? It's not just a theoretical, what would you do? Or a fake p and l for something that we just kinda make up. It's, it's, this is what you actually participated in and the changes and the game plan you're gonna come up with, you're actually gonna feel in the field because you're putting it to play in real life.
Um, that the classes, like I said, it's designed to get you. Up to speed. Now we have plumbers, we have [00:12:00] HVAC technicians, um, electrical admin staff in there as well too. Mm-hmm. The goal is not that they get trained specifically. You know, plumber is not only going to be a plumbing sales manager or an install manager.
The course is designed that you could go through any one of our leadership positions. Right. A plumber maybe, you know, gets into marketing in some way, or uh, in hr, whatever it might be. Right. But it's, the goal is that. You are trained on the Wilson way and you are trained on the leadership one oh ones that you can then apply to that role.
So you still have to learn the individual role, right, of sales versus install versus admin, whatever it might be. But nonetheless, the leadership that we expect, the style leadership is the same across every department. Yeah, financial literacy is, is the same. Uh, but that gives you the framework to work off of.
So when you do step into that role. You're learning the role itself and not also how to be a leader at the same exact time. Yeah. So it's just a much easier onboarding process for them, and they can get up to speed a lot faster.
John Wilson: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, that makes sense. What, what's it take [00:13:00] to get in an emerging leader program?
Brandon Niro: Uh, exactly what we talked about before, right? Is I'm looking for people who are ambitiously pursuing it. From that point, we sit down and have a conversation about what are their career objectives, what do they wanna do, where do they see themselves in two years, five years from now? Um, I. I wanna understand what their passion is and understand, know, is it a monetarily based thing or is it a career development side?
Mm-hmm. Uh, is sometimes it's not always the right fit.
John Wilson: Sometimes it is. Yeah. I mean, if it's money, like in sales or install, you know, individual contribution is the way to maximize the dollars. Yeah. If your career
Brandon Niro: is not specifically tied to, I want to lead and I want to build a career around leadership, it might not be the best fit.
You know, if it's monetarily based, like. Sales is, is the way to, to do that. Um, but if it is, you know, hey, I, I want to build a career on leadership. I have a passion for leading. I have a passion for developing others. Great leadership is a good potential for that. Now we look outside of the, [00:14:00] looking for the raw potential, but then we're also looking for that commitment.
It is 52 weeks, it is at seven o'clock in the morning. It's in the middle of the week. I'm looking for, you know, the people who are willing to commit to that. Be on time, be here every week, willing to learn and willing to participate in things that are very much outside their comfort zone. Mm-hmm. Every single week we cover our topic, and every single week we are acting through role plays, uh, live play scenarios, uh, groups, group work activities.
So it's gonna put them outside their comfort zone. I'm looking for someone who's prepared to go through that process and kind of be vulnerable and talk about things that maybe they wouldn't normally talk about. Especially like, for example, there's. I think it was almost 12 weeks worth of emotional intelligence topics that we go through.
A lot of that's frankly, you know, vulnerable. We're talking about how to actively communicate with your team, how to go through those kind of challenging situations that you might be presented with. When you're working through a, you know, individual contributing one-on-one, maybe they're going through something personally, how do you help you navigate that so they [00:15:00] can be successful in a career and in their personal life?
Yeah, so requires people in the class to become open and vulnerable and have those conversations. So again, you were looking for people who are willing to explore that and be open to it. Uh, from there it's a conversation of, hey, understanding that it's more than just your trade or the department you're in.
This is an opportunity for you to look at things across the entire company. Um, when we go multi-location, right, it's no longer just plumbing or HVAC or electric. It could be a general managing position. Mm-hmm. It could be in the warehouse, you know, we really don't know. Uh, but. What are your career aspirations on that side?
Is it just anything? Are you really tied to the trade? What are you looking for there? Um, we're talking about timelines. It's what that looks like. You know how no positions are guaranteed, but you're
John Wilson: looking for, I think this is the most delicate part. Yeah. Because what we've learned just historically is like if you don't handle it well, which I think we're handling it [00:16:00] well now.
Yeah. But if you don't handle it well. Internal promotions are almost as the HR or or from the executive team down are, are more intimidating than external. 'cause people feel like they got passed over. Yes. So you have to be really cautious. So the way that we've been approaching that now is, hey, if we're opening up a leadership position in-house, like we will look at the whole company.
Mm. Um. But our primary focus is the people that have been being trained for this. And if there are multiple, then like that's when it gets a little tricky.
Brandon Niro: Yeah. A hundred percent. And we're, you know, we're
John Wilson: dealing with a lot of that right now too. Yeah. Good things. We have three open or two now 'cause we've placed one.
Mm-hmm. But two open leadership positions. Yeah. And, uh, they have multiple candidates that are inside leadership training that could be a good fit. And the conversation we have there
Brandon Niro: is, you know, you are all qualified. For those roles by going through this. But what we're looking for is in this time, who is the most
John Wilson: qualified?
Right? Yeah. The current [00:17:00] best fit. Yeah.
Brandon Niro: And especially when we're talking about multi-manager departments, so Yes. You know, which I don't think we've
John Wilson: talked about that a lot on the show. Yeah. But we're, which it, this is exciting. Yeah. Like, I think it's kind of cool. Yeah. Uh, and I, one of the reasons I think it's cool is like.
Companies we're like graduating up to the next layer. Right? Big boys. Now we're big boys. And uh, we're like, okay, plumbing service has two plumbing service managers. Oh. And, uh, like HVAC's about to have two and plumbing install is about to have two. And just like the team size is bigger. So I think that's kinda fun.
But yeah. Creates, just wanted to explain that nuance. Yeah.
Brandon Niro: It creates that, yeah. That kind of complexity there, because you are gonna bring somebody in. It's a multi managed department. So we're looking at the strengths of the existing manager and saying, okay, do we need to duplicate that? Or do we need to come?
Is there a gap? Yeah. Yeah. And in some of the cases right now, we're seeing a need to compliment those strengths where the person currently is extremely well-suited for the technical side of the department, but what's needed is a stronger admin or leader [00:18:00] side that can help with the development portion.
Yeah. Uh, so then we're looking Okay, based off the pool of people who are interviewing. Uh, great candidates, but which one fits that specific need of that development side? Better to compliment the existing manager who's already succeeding.
John Wilson: Yeah.
Brandon Niro: Uh, and that's, you know, comes the conversation and what, what I promised to them and what we as a leadership team are committing to that one-on-one class is we're going to be blatantly transparent with everybody and we're gonna have those conversations before anything's announced.
We'll go through the interview process, we'll talk about it. And if you're not selected. We're gonna have a really frank and open conversation as to what happened, why, and things that we could look for. Yeah, exactly. So it's not that you're just kind of left to the weeds on there, but yeah, here was the decision and here's why, and here's how we can help get you there when that next position opens.
Mm-hmm. Um, which I think, you know, because of the nature of the class, people have been open to those conversations and understanding of those, which is nice, but I don't think that would've not, that would not have happened if we were not [00:19:00] super transparent in the beginning. As to you we're just stating the obvious, right?
There are 10 people in this class. There are three positions open. If all of you apply, only three of 10 are going to fill these spots. Yeah. So inevitably someone's gonna get a no, and we'll talk about that and we'll help you prepare for the next time. But everyone just has to be prepared. That like inevitably you're gonna get a no.
So let's talk about that. Mm-hmm. And that's made it a lot easier to work through. They're still not easy conversations, right. Like here Yeah. Someone's in that, that program to grow their career and this was a no. So it's turning that no into like, okay, let's build the path to make you instead of a No, it's a not yet.
Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Um, yeah. Still challenging no matter what. And it's, it's hard too because, you know, there you get to. Know them so much better. Yeah. Yeah,
John Wilson: yeah. Uh, so it's, it's definitely a more emotional conversation. Yeah. Yeah. That makes sense. So that's, that's sort of, you know, what we've worked through is apprentice to tech, tech to frontline [00:20:00] manager.
Yeah. Um, now I would say that we've also sort of seen this on the administrative side too, where Yes. Where, hey, we have an, we have people, individual contributors come in and call center or dispatch and, and they've sort of worked their way into a super position. So in, in administrative we have, uh.
Frontline, which is like, call taker dispatch, install coordination, buyer, you know, that type of thing. And then there's a super that manages a team of up to three and then above supers are managers. So when, you know, how do you think about that sort of, uh, transition?
Brandon Niro: Yeah. The, the lead and super is kind of an interesting topic, right?
Because they're, they're still an individual contributor with additional responsibility to that. I think what becomes much more transparent there, or much more obvious, I guess I'd say, is what is their passion behind that? Um, we had a call taker who's a great case in point where we pushed him further than he wanted to go, right?
Mm-hmm. Um, at the time he was excited for it. I think we kind of talked him into the [00:21:00] conversation, but we pushed him past his limits, right? And he moved from a amazing call taker. Beyond that into a super role and, and failed at it. Right. Uh, recognized that unfortunately too late. Uh, success story, you know, ends up coming back and again, being an amazing call center.
Mm-hmm. Uh, call taker on that side, but, and like earning more. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Like really, like succeeding. Yes. Like, genuinely just succeed, which is cool. Yeah. It's, it was nice to see. It was awesome. Very glad to recover that. But one of those things that I'm looking for at that point there is.
Passion to want it, and not necessarily me saying like, oh, hey, you're really, really good at your role. So you also obviously have to be good at leading. It's again, that do you have a passion to lead and do you have a passion to want to do more and take more responsibility, uh, because great success in your role doesn't automatically translate to great success as a leader.
Mm-hmm. And I think we've, we've seen that play out several times. Uh, so it's always just kinda like a lesson in the back of my head as we're having those conversations of [00:22:00] just because you're great at that doesn't mean the next step is the right decision.
Jack Carr: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I, I think so too. Just answer the phone.
It's one of those phrases that's always easier said than done. I know it was hard for me and my business 'cause the phone always rings while you're out in the field trying to get something done. Or it's 8:00 PM and you're trying to get your kids to bed. Well, I have the solution for you. I'm extremely excited today to announce Quick Staffers your go-to solution for building a high performing cost-effective customer service team.
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John Wilson: So when, if, um, we, we've had, uh, four, five people now mm-hmm. Go from somewhere inside the organization. Moved up to the senior leadership team. Yeah. [00:23:00] Which is, uh, one boss as fuck. Nice. Uh, but, but how are you, how are you thinking about that? I mean, we've had a few managers mm-hmm. Promoted to directors Yes.
For now. Yeah. And there's a lot going on there. Mm-hmm. So like, what are you looking for when you're, you know, promoting into a senior leadership seat? 'cause often they don't have the skills. Yet, yeah. That we need. And we are not as dialed in or locked in on creating senior leaders as we are frontline leaders.
And I think it'll come in time, but we're just not there now. It
Brandon Niro: is a hundred percent a weak spot. And to be honest with you, I really don't know yet because the team who has succeeded, succeeded by just sheer miked, uh, use Ally as a great example. She was another one who just made it abundantly clear. Her passion was to have my job.
Like she was chasing the role I was in perpetually, which drove me to be better, which obviously she succeeded at doing. Yeah. Um, so it was good. But you know, if we're saying that [00:24:00] that's not the best approach now because there's not, as you know, at the time for her that was the perfect opportunity and she succeeded and seizing that opportunity.
Is that path has clear now for somebody else who maybe has the same ambition? Probably not as clear 'cause the company's just grown so much. So frankly, that's something I'm still like trying to understand is to, what were the keys kind of, if you reflect back right on what she did? Yeah. What were her success points?
What were those key or pivotal moments? Yeah. That she did. Was like, okay, yeah, she's ready for the next move. And trying to figure out how do we repeat that or put that into a, yeah, into a plan. Actually, I feel like
John Wilson: I do kind of have it.
Brandon Niro: Oh,
John Wilson: what you got? Yeah. Here, what do you got? Yeah. Yeah. So, and this is trends.
So if we're spotting trends, the people that have moved to our senior leadership team are the people who either identified a problem or were part of a conversation with the problem and said yes to being a part of the solution. Consistently. Okay. And the people that who are not [00:25:00] yet on our senior leadership team did not do that.
If, if we just like, overarching think about that, so there's, there's expressing interest in, Hey, I want to grow my career, I want to grow myself, I wanna do all this stuff. And, and that's good. Mm-hmm. And that's like table stakes one. Step two is, I see this problem and I am going to be a part of the solution.
Here's how I can help. So four. Of our directors right now, which there are four all did that, every single one when they were in leadership positions. Yes. So, um, we can walk through a few of their careers, but inside fulfillment, she jumped into acquisitions, she helped with integration. She signed herself up to take on more and to solve bigger problems, and she took over departments that were struggling.
Inside. Inside operations, it was the same thing. Hey, this is touching my department. I think I can do it better. Can I take over this team from over here? She's done that twice now. Fair. [00:26:00] Okay. So, and I, marketing is the same thing, like helped stand up a few teams and then helped monitor and absolutely taking on more and solving bigger and bigger problems every day.
Brandon Niro: So I guess my question on that one, and this is like an if, right? Mm-hmm. As the company grows. In my mind they were, again, those are opportunities they seized because they were visible to them.
John Wilson: Yes.
Brandon Niro: Do those problems become less visible to that level that has the opportunity to grow? I don't think so. I actually
John Wilson: think it even becomes more visible.
So if I, if I'm a plumber today mm-hmm. In Wilson and I see something that I don't like, or not, not just like me, you know, back to like I can zoom out beyond just my own perspective. Yeah. And like, Hey, this problem. Impacts my department, and if this problem were fixed, we would be more profitable.
Brandon Niro: Okay.
John Wilson: So how a lot of team members would approach that problem is kind of emotional.
Mm-hmm. So they would come in, [00:27:00] they'd hooten, sort of holler about it until somebody halfway fixes it. Mm-hmm. Because the company is so large and because there's so much going on. If someone said, Hey, here's the problem, here's how I can solve it, I'll participate. That's signing themselves up for a career accelerant.
And you know, when I, I did a tweet a couple weeks ago, 'cause this was on my brain a few weeks ago. 'cause I think I noticed something with, uh, as Lori was doing it. Um, but I, I think when I think about the people that have been the most mobile, if you, our organization upwards, they, uh. They're solving big problems and they're assigning themselves up to solve big problems.
Okay. So I think the fastest career accelerant that anyone can have in Wilson or, or in any business ever is how do I find the biggest problem or the biggest opportunity and say, Hey, can I help you solve that? Like if it flops, [00:28:00] then okay, like not late, like maybe bounce back to your old position. But if you succeed.
Ally went from call taker to director in 36 months. So like, yeah. So I'm like, it's yeah. Changed your life and, and I think there's this, I, I think you can accelerate mm-hmm. By enlisting.
Brandon Niro: So I agree with that. And then maybe the next conversation there is. Those happen because you and me had direct purview to them.
Mm-hmm. So how do we make sure that our directors Yes. And our current managers feel empowered to allow their teams to step up as well too?
John Wilson: Yeah.
Brandon Niro: Because if they don't have a direct access to you and me to say, Hey, I see this problem, I wanna solve it a hundred percent. Because we would typically be the ones to initiate acceleration.
How do we allow directors and current managers to say like, Hey, someone in my team does wanna step up. They identified something, they see it. And they wanna help solve it. How do we make sure they're enabled to say
John Wilson: yes and get them involved?
Brandon Niro: Yeah.
John Wilson: Yeah. I, I mean, I, I think that's the, that's the high [00:29:00] potential question.
The high pot question, like how do you encourage entrepreneurial behaviors mm-hmm. Anywhere inside the organization. And then once someone identifies them, how do you drag 'em Yeah. From wherever they are into something useful. Yeah.
Brandon Niro: Yeah. That would be interesting. I. I think that has to do something with like the way we operate our VTO, right?
Like we, we talk about the, the growth trajectory of the company. We talk about what we want to be. Um, maybe that's something I think we can easily tie into there. 'cause it ties in with our core values of betterment and teamwork, right? So it's do we lean into that and really get the leadership team to understand that they have the ability to empower their team to have those conversations.
We're doing it by proxy, right? Through our leadership development, this thing we just talked about, where they're participating in a real life solution. Mm-hmm. How do we expand that beyond there? Mm-hmm.
John Wilson: So people, one potential way to do it, which could be kind of fun is like we take the emerging leaders class.
So like I. Not apprentices typically. Mm-hmm. Right. Are there some apprentices? No. Okay, so non apprentices typically, but I [00:30:00] believe that's field and administration. Yep. Yeah, so like pretty good scope of the company and we're getting ready for a second cohort of another 10. Yes. So a 20 total. What could be kind of fun is like running project style cohorts.
You know, last time we had you on was like, Hey, how do we build this like lethal? Team. Mm-hmm. So what if you, what if you took this team and you were like, Hey, here's a problem. Let's work on it for 30 days. So like a month and like that's one of the sections is like, Hey, we have four weeks where we're gonna work on it.
And like, we'll hit it hard. That'd be interesting. And like, we provide budget so that way resource is not a constraint. So it would be like, Hey, materials maybe. Mm-hmm. Like, Hey, this problem. Here's the depth of this problem. This problem is a $80,000 a month problem, which means you are solving a million dollar problem, like the resources that you'll be provided.
Like we'll commit $10,000 or $20,000 over the next [00:31:00] 30 days to solve it, or 60 days to solve it. That would be interesting. Let's solve it because I think that is, 'cause we already have the people who are interested in grow, and I think that's my point is like step one is saying, Hey, I want to grow.
Brandon Niro: Yeah.
John Wilson: Step two is I identifying problems or opportunities that they can grow in.
Brandon Niro: Mm-hmm. Okay. Yeah, I can, I can get you behind that. I like that. That would be interesting too, because it's no longer in theory and they could actually participate in something real.
John Wilson: Yeah. Like I think that's like, I think it, I think it, uh, what's the program like Sherwin Williams and like their leadership development programs?
Yeah, there's a name for it. Uh, it's like management training or intern. I don't know, but I think this is kind of how it works. Yeah. Where like you go in and you work on problems inside departments. Yeah. And you're sort of working in departments. Yeah. They get like a three month stint throughout all the different Right.
Divisions. So maybe that's year two of the leadership development program. So year one is like, here's how leadership [00:32:00] works. Mm-hmm. And year two per cohort could be tactical, hands-on. Or like the back half or something. 'cause I know it's 52 weeks so I don't wanna mess with that. But you start like solving real issues.
Brandon Niro: That would be interesting. Yeah. 'cause then they could actually put to play all the stuff they're learning. Yeah.
John Wilson: And keep it fresh. Yeah. That'd be interesting. I know when I was in school, like for accounting it, I was able to go to school on Wednesday night, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday night, come in the next day and like have a set of books to look at.
Yeah. And that I think can like sped it all up. Yeah. I would agree.
Brandon Niro: I think that would be interesting to figure out a project base set up like that for them, because even we could run alongside the program. It's just a way to keep reinforcing Yeah. What they're doing. I always joke with, you remember the the, the business strategy game.
Yeah. Uh, it's just like a way to practice what we're preach, you know, that kind of stuff. That would be interesting, but to actually do it instead of Wilson instead of just a game. Yeah. Have
John Wilson: fun. And there's stuff that don't even need like [00:33:00] that big of a resource. Yeah. Like, Hey guys, our number of reviews a week.
Is less than we want. Mm-hmm. Here's $5,000, like where do we put it? Mm-hmm. How do we allocate that? Like how do you think we solve this problem? Yeah,
Brandon Niro: I like that. Yeah. 'cause then they, it would also give 'em a deeper understanding too of the why's behind some of that, which as still people in the field.
They would be the agents of that change too, to now they understand the deep meaning behind the why, why review so important. Yep. They're changing and making effect to that problem. Mm-hmm. They're also the change agents in the field to get everybody on
John Wilson: board with it. Yeah. And I thought a lot. Yeah. I also think it like distributes problem solving, which I think is good.
'cause I think if we, if we really like break down like what is leadership and like what is moving, it's like, it's just we're solving problems at scale.
Brandon Niro: Yeah.
John Wilson: Like, that's it. Yeah. And. And I think a lot of it's just like, how can we un bottleneck [00:34:00] problem solving
Brandon Niro: that I think is the next major hurdle that we or myself, or we're gonna solve.
Yeah. Is I'm starting to get better at the delegation of that stuff. Yeah. Or you know, un bottlenecking per se. That's the next tier we have to work with. Is our directors too, on how do we Oh yeah. Further on bottleneck. So they don't become, they don't become meat, they don't become the next pinch point.
John Wilson: I'm a big fan of this idea. 'cause I feel like we literally just had this natively on here, but like Yeah. Yeah. But I, I, I do think that, yeah, the trend is, hey, if you wanna move up to frontline leadership, it is, I want to grow in my career. Yeah. Wherever you are. Yeah. I'm an apprentice, I'm a call taker, I'm a technician.
I want to grow in my career and I'm willing to commit to that. Okay, great. We have a program to do that. Um, and then once you're inside that program, or once you are currently a frontline leader. I want to still grow in my career. What does the next step look like? Well, great. The next step is senior managers or directors.
Yeah. And here's what that looks like. [00:35:00] Let's solve real problems instead of tactical being to day. Yeah,
Brandon Niro: I like that a lot. Yeah.
John Wilson: Yeah. And maybe the next step after That's like p and l ownership.
Brandon Niro: Yeah. According subsets of it too. Yeah. Yeah. Because that's, I mean, kinda what we're doing now with the project is they're picking their, the one thing they're most passionate about.
So essentially we will take some ownership over it. A subset instead of gross margin, whether it's labor material, they had to pick one specific so that they're not kind of overshooting. I want them to be successful in it. So they have to pick a specific issue and tie it to one specific metric, whether it's labor, material, uh, and then work through that problem.
So,
John Wilson: yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Would what would've been kind of interesting, just as I, 'cause I can think of all these like different decisions we make every day, and it would be fun to handle this with like a group of like, here's an active thing. Like we just did a price change. Did you guys talk about that? No.
That would've killed, that'd be interesting. Yeah. That would've killed, yeah. Of like, God, do the next week. Yeah. Yeah. [00:36:00] Like, Hey, here's the problem we're having. Mm-hmm. Our material is now 26% budget's, 23 4 percent's a lot. Yeah. Our Labor's 26, it's supposed to be also 23. That's a lot. Like, what do you think we should do?
What are the options we have?
Brandon Niro: Mm-hmm.
John Wilson: You know? Layoff raise price, fire, low performers, you know, there's five, six options. It is not a lot. Um, and then just like working through it and then like, okay, well what we chose was price increase. Mm-hmm. How do we do that and how do we drill that in? How do we train it?
How do we roll it out? So I, I feel like there's a lot, I almost feel like you could take sections of our senior leadership, L 10. Like, Hey, we missed on this metric, so we missed on labor, we missed on materials, we missed on reviews, like we missed somewhere. Mm-hmm. Let's make that a conversation. Yeah, yeah,
Brandon Niro: yeah.
I'm trying to like make sure that that program is as transparent as possible too, so that they just, they understand that why, and it's not just a, [00:37:00] Hey, do this because this is the way you were taught type of thing. But yeah, understand the true, yeah. What is the reason behind it and what was the logic on the decision that was made?
So I think that would help. Yeah, I deepen that understanding, so,
John Wilson: yeah. Yeah. Fascinating. This was a good discussion I feel like, for our own team of just how to move through the organization. Um, and I think the big thing is like if you're looking for opportunity, like we have it. Yeah. So reach out to your direct, like there's, have the conversations everywhere.
You can be pretty mobile horizontally. You can be pretty mobile vertically. Mm-hmm. That's a big opportunity now.
Brandon Niro: Yeah.
John Wilson: The
Brandon Niro: single biggest failure point I see is people who have that conversation. It always sucks 'cause it's too late, but you hear it in the exit interview and it's, I wanted more and I didn't, I didn't get there and it's never really like, I didn't know how, it's just like it wasn't there.
They didn't see it. So it's, yeah, that's the single I can say. It's just ask, have the conversation. If you're interested [00:38:00] in it, talk to somebody about it. 'cause we don't know until you say it, we can help you get there. And you just gotta let it be known that that's a desire.
John Wilson: Yeah, I think. A few ways I think we're, I, I know I'm working on like cleaning that up is, is one, here's the, here's the where we're going wall.
I also think being much more transparent with our 12 month org chart wall. Yeah. Like, Hey, 12 months from now, this is the org chart that we see. Yeah. And I think that that will provide Yeah. More insight.
Brandon Niro: Yeah. Yeah. Especially how much the team's grown. There's not. Folks who have been here, you know, maybe a year or even two years, they weren't part of the explosion in the, the very beginning.
So they don't understand how fast we're g growing because they're just jumping in the middle of it. Yeah, they're coming. We have 150
John Wilson: people. Yeah. They're like, oh, we're at 160 now.
Brandon Niro: Yeah. They don't see that there is true opportunity there because they didn't witness it. But as we prep for the next stage, you know, multi-location, it's, those opportunities represent themself [00:39:00] in, in large numbers.
Mm-hmm. So just.
John Wilson: Be willing to continue organic. Yeah. Like three new leadership, four. 'cause warehouse. Yeah. That's a lot. Mm-hmm. That's a lot. I don't think they're clear then, which is exactly what you're trying to solve. A new super and, uh, call center too. So that's five. So yeah, it's really not transparent.
So that's something I'll work on after this. Yeah. But just like, Hey, here's our 12 month yeah. Org chart. Here's what we think it looks like. Start, because I, I think that also will start like. Okay, here's all the different seats. Mm-hmm. I kind of wanna be over there. Um, I kind of wanna be over there. I feel like what would be really interesting, I don't know.
I don't know how to pull this off in a way that's like transparent and like effective. 'cause I think you can do it transparent, but I think it can be really ineffective. Yeah. Is like rough compensation ranges by seat. That way they understand where they can grow and what compensation, like what does it look like once you're there?
Yeah. [00:40:00]
Brandon Niro: I would agree. 'cause again, like we said, as if their passions are other than just career development or maybe they're, it's both. They should understand Yeah. What, what does that look like? What does a career look like? What does a comp look like? Understanding, you know, if you're gonna make an active decision to grow and push towards something.
Yeah. What does the end result,
John Wilson: yeah. Fascinating. Good topic. Yeah, this was good. Um, yeah, if. I think we'll do a wrap up. So any quick tips on emer? Like this is something that came up a lot years ago. Mm-hmm. Uh, in a, a few of the group chats I'm in, but like, um, creating a leadership development program, which you have now done.
You did an amazing job of it. Uh, I can't even say we, like you did a great job of it. Um. How, like what's the quick tip here on like, how to do that? Because I don't even think that was nexstar or, no, it was like maybe some flavors, but like we did it. Yeah, [00:41:00] that one I said we
Brandon Niro: nice. Um, honestly, you know, I'm still, this is the first cohort we're going through, so like we're actively learning just as we go on this, this podcast we just added a second year Yeah.
To it. Hold on for two weeks to it. Like, the big thing is I think that I'm, I've learned so far is. The program has to it. It's great. You know, you can learn about Wilson, you can learn about your specific company, you can learn about some of the stuff, but there still has to, you have to go back to the one oh ones and I had to take a lot of time and a lot of input from other people on things that maybe I just took for granted or things that I thought, or just one oh ones that actually aren't.
And you truly need to explain those. Yeah. So like, just take it another step further than you think you need to go. Yeah. You're gonna have a conversation about one-on-ones. You need to take it a step further back and understand. Why do one-on-ones happen? Mm-hmm. In the emotional intelligence conversations behind that, when the topics inevitably come up in it that you have to address, you can't just be like, yeah, one-on-ones.
Here's why they're important and here's how you do them. Let's [00:42:00] talk about what's the emotional intelligence behind them. Mm-hmm. So just every topic that you think you need to cover, whether it's with your existing leadership team or someone who's, uh, preparing to move into leadership for the first time, just go another step further.
Mm-hmm. Make it. Truly understanding of how to operate those. 'cause what you don't want, and what I'm really trying to avoid with our team is to give them that false sense of reality that they are prepared and that they end up flopping. Right. When they get into that first crucial conversation, I want you to really understand how to navigate those.
So when you have the first one mm-hmm. You're successful and that builds your confidence. Right. That's why the class, when we first started it, I think the very first, uh, layout I did was only 16 weeks, and then I started getting input from everybody and then it blossomed into. Just a hair over a year.
Yeah, we got it shrunk down to a year on the dot. But that was a big kinda like, oh aha moment for me was I took a lot of things for granted that I've known for long enough that I just forgot, or, you know, they're second nature to me. They're not going to be for others. And if you are in the position where you're actively going to [00:43:00] start making a leadership program like this, there's going to be things that you take for granted.
Yeah. So just think further back onto the first time you were in a management role or leadership role. What are the things that you wish you would've known then? Mm-hmm. That are now just section, just how
John Wilson: you do it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's good. It's good perspective. Awesome. Um, if you like what you've heard, make sure you like and subscribe and check out owned and operated.com.
We do have our next workshop coming up. It's in August, owned and operated.com/workshop. Thanks.
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