Are Billboards Worth It for Home Service Businesses? (Or Just an Expensive Ego Boost?)
Billboards can feel like a milestone for a growing home service company—your name on the highway, customers saying they saw your brand, friends texting photos of your sign. But for most HVAC, plumbing, and electrical companies, billboard advertising starts too early and becomes an expensive distraction from what actually drives growth: leads.
In this episode, John Wilson sits down with Sam Preston (CEO of Service Scalers) for another installment of the Clicks to Calls series. They break down when billboards actually work, when they don’t, and why most contractors under $20M are usually better off buying more leads instead of investing heavily in brand campaigns.
They also unpack what makes a billboard memorable, why density matters more than just “having one,” and how brand channels like billboards show up in your data through branded search rather than traditional attribution.
You’ll learn:
- When billboards actually make sense for HVAC, plumbing, and electrical companies
- The biggest mistake contractors make: running one or two billboards instead of building density
- Why most companies under ~$20M should prioritize buying leads over brand marketing
Host: John Wilson — https://x.com/WilsonCompanies
Guest: Sam Preston — https://x.com/HeySamPreston
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John Wilson, CEO of Wilson Companies
Jack Carr, CEO of Rapid HVAC
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Billboard done right is a part of a larger strategy. You know, Roku or YouTube tv, maybe we're doing radio. Where I see people not doing it well is why are they paying a thousand dollars a month for one single billboard on a road that nobody drives on? Right? Have to make it memorable. Has to type back to your brand.It can't just be funny, it's gotta like funny and yeah, it. Sense. I think the thing I dislike about it, once you get that billboard up, it's hard to change. There's like an ego thing there. Like I saw my name. Family is very proud of you. Meanwhile, like you have no calls on the board. Yeah. This is not strategy.This is desperation. Somebody please test this and let us know how that goes for you. Yeah. I like overarching opinion on billboards iswelcome back. To owned and operated. I am your host, John Wilson. I'm the CEO of Wilson Plumbing, heating, cooling and Electric in Ohio and Indiana. And for fun, I run a podcast where I talk to my friends about how to build their home service business. Today I have Sam Preston, the CEO of Service, scalers back on the show for our continuing series, clicks to Calls, where we unpack each episode, a different segment of marketing.We've done GMB, we've done L-S-A-P-P-C. When to hire a marketing manager. And today we're talking about billboards. Welcome back. Hey. In person. In person. In person. I like this. Loud and proud. I like this. This is nice. It's definitely a better experience in person. Yeah. Uh, zoom does exist, but yeah, this is better.Do, do I look different in person? Like, like obviously Signifi more traffic in your Oh, significant. Yeah. Stop it. It's the studio lighting, I think. Oh my God. But, um, yeah, I, uh. No, I mean the hair is still something to get used to. Yeah. Yeah. It's no longer being pulled back into a bun. Yeah. Yeah. I mean you had long hair for like years, uh, 14 inches.Yeah. So I only know that 'cause I donated it. Yeah. And so like you had to have longer than 12 inches to be able to. Yeah. That is kind of cool. Yeah. Well, today we're talking, uh, we're talking billboards. Yep. What's your like, experience level with billboards? Oh, massive. Big billboard guy. Um, and by that I mean literally none.None. Never. I have seen a lot of billboards. Yeah. And I've seen ones that I like. Yeah. And then ones that I like, I don't get it. Um, yeah. And so. I'm excited to learn from you today. Okay. On like what makes a good billboard. I have like kind of harsh opinions on billboards. Do you, I've, I've heard you, you have one opinionated and passionate about billboards, so I'm excited.Yeah. I think billboards, I think billboards are funny. Um, but yeah, we, we will, we will unpack it. Um, okay. So like, I probably shouldn't have to define it, but what is the billboard we're going to, we are going to tell me this is the internet. Uh, so billboards are giant fucking signs. Uh, like on the highway or almost always on the highway.Maybe side streets or whatever. Yeah. Main roads where, uh, there is a visual display of some sort, where it has the company name, maybe a message, a photo. So yeah, large out of home. That's the categories. Out of home advertising. Some other things that fall into out of home, like bus stops. Yeah. Buses. Maybe sports arenas that might fall into out-of-home.Uh, I actually don't know if that does. 'cause that might be its own category, which is Sure. Uh, sponsorships, um, big signs outta home in New York City. Yeah. Mm-hmm. I know, but like, out of home is its own category of advertising. So Billboard is probably the biggest part of out of home. There's the static ones, which like, they physically print a piece of paper in like.Put it up there for a month. Uh, and then there's the revolving ones, which are like the big TVs on the side of the highways. Yep. Um, it's kind of an expensive medium, like to do at scale. People do it a lot because it can be cheap too, so like. Maybe that's one of the benefits of it is you can cover almost any budget.Like you could do something if you had $500 a month and you could do something if you had $50,000 a month. Yeah. And you can cover the whole spectrum. It's sort of like Facebook ads in that way. Yeah. Where like you can start, you can go as big as you want. Yeah. Versus like tv. Like you can't really go as big as you want radio or as small as you want.Like there's a mid threshold, but Boo Wars, like you can start pretty small. Nice. And that's usually what I see is like. It's either a company that has no business advertising on billboards. Mm-hmm. But like they could afford it 'cause it's $500 a month. Mm-hmm. Or a thousand dollars a month or something.And they're like, okay, hey this'll work. Or it's a gigantic company and they're doing like a hundred billboards at a time and like it's a core part of their branding. And like those are the two buckets that I tend to see. Yeah. Not many people in the middle because I think people just find more efficient ways to drive leads.Yeah. So like they try billboards. They're like that a thousand dollars would do better on LSA. Right? Uh, so then they go to LSA and then much larger they're, they're doing. Hey, we need branding. Yeah. So I assume billboards, uh, although you can start small with a smaller budget Yeah. Is way more effective when you have a bigger budget, which obviously everything.But I feel like the thing about billboards is like you just keep popping up. Uh, like I know that I should not scream, I should call Hakeem, uh, which is a billboard in my area for some sort of like an injury attorney or something. Injury attorney, yeah. Yeah. Uh, and it's, I've seen his. His, his stuff everywhere.Call k and r. That's our local one. Is it? Nice, nice. Uh, Jeff Cook is our real estate agent. That's literally everywhere. Yeah. Um, and so. I, I feel like that's the way to win is where you take up so much. Real estate is when they, you just literally, I'm spitting off different, I think that's billboard's done, right?Yeah, so there's, and, and comically it's always injury attorneys. Um, because we have a big injury attorney here. It's uh, Tim Mney. Mm-hmm. And his branding is so freaking good. It's at the point where like, I passed a billboard on the way I passed probably 15 of his billboards on the way to work today.Which I don't even think I'm exaggerating. And like one of them was just ney. Mm-hmm. Like, and everybody knows like, oh yeah, fucking Tim Ney. Of course. Yeah. Uh, a couple years ago, like, he's known for having, it's a very distinct face. Like he's this serious looking face baldheaded guy, and uh, and he does this thing with his eyebrow.Mm-hmm. We're like one eyebrow arches, like two inches higher than the other. Mm-hmm. So. I don't know if he's trademarked his eyebrow or not, but there was a year where all of his billboards were literally just the eyebrow. And everyone knew knew exactly who the hell this guy was. Yeah. And it was, and I think that's, that's billboards done done right.But he's probably also spending 50 grand a month on billboards. Yeah. Like he's on hundreds of billboards at a time in addition to his, his other mediums. And so all, all that to say, I think Billboard done right. Is a part of a larger strategy. Mm-hmm. And, uh, so that could be, Hey, we're, we're doing. Um, over the top, which is like, uh, you know, Roku or YouTube mm-hmm.Or Hulu or whatever. It's, uh, over the top marketing, maybe we're doing tv, maybe we're doing radio and we have this message on, you know, our broadcast advertising and Billboard brings an in-person out of home component to that advertising. So like, Hey, we've got this ad mm-hmm. On tv and we have this billboard that matches that ad on tv.Yeah. And I think that is when you do it well, really well, but it takes money. Yeah. That's like a $50,000 a month. Yeah. Spend. Yeah. Where I see people not doing it well is I, I'll pass a billboard and I'm like, I know this company. Mm-hmm. I know they have five technicians. Yeah. Why are they paying a thousand dollars a month for one single billboard on a road that nobody drives on?Right. And I feel like that's when my opinion on billboards is like, what the hell are you doing? Yeah. It is time again for our breaking five workshop. This is the fifth time we've done it, and we've had over 130 contractors go through this cohort. If you're hovering between one and 5 million of revenue and you're feeling stuck, then you're not alone.I know the hesitation. Can I really step away from my business for three days? Is the workshop actually going to be worth it? Is it too HVAC specific? Well, here's the truth. Breaking five isn't a big conference. It's 25 to 30 operators in a small room. It's highly tactical. There's Norah Rod nonsense.You'll be alongside myself and Jack Carr at my home service business in Akron. Seeing the actual systems behind accounting. Call center dispatch service. Install the real bottlenecks. You're gonna work alongside other operators at your exact stage to build a plan that you implement the second you get home.The networking alone is worth it, and the clarity is game changing. Three days limited to 30 seats. If you're serious about breaking through the $5 million wall, grab your ticket for 500 off@ownedandoperated.com with code breaking early bird, or click the link below. It was a company we looked at. I think I've even told you this story, like on the show, like I've told this, I've told this story on this show so many times with this.The first time it's like actually applicable. Okay. So I was looking at this business and this was like three or four years ago. We didn't end up buying it. Apex bought it and I'm still a little salty butt hurt about it. Yeah. To be honest. And uh, 'cause it was a good, like, it's a plumbing only 5 million to, you know, it's a nice.It was nice. Perfect sandwich. It was very nice. Uh, so we unpack their, we unpack their, um, their marketing spend. Mm-hmm. Yeah. I've told this story as a part of this series, and they spend a perfect 10%. On marketing and I get really excited when I see a, a company that's for sale, that's spending real money in marketing.Yeah. Because that tells you a lot. Yeah. Like, hey, if they're spending real money, they have distributable free cash flow. Right? They can reinvest. They're trying to grow, like the business is probably pretty healthy if they're investing 10% into marketing. Versus like two. Yeah. You're like, okay, why are you, why are you just investing two?Like, what, what's wrong? Yeah. Um, but they're doing 10%, so $500,000. Yeah. And outta that $500,000, somewhere between two and 300,000 was billboards. Yeah. Which, that's 20 grand a month for a $5 million business. Yeah. And revenue wasn't shrinking, but it was sort of like flat. Yeah. Like they didn't, it wasn't moving the way we want.I'm looking at this two to $300,000, which is a ton of money. Yeah. That's 20 grand a month. But like it wasn't moving the business forward. Yeah. And I think that's, that's where I, it's a perfect example of like, that's a lot of money. It wasn't enough to move the business forward. It was all of their branding budget.Mm-hmm. And they weren't doing TV or radio to like combine it. Combine it, yeah. And I think that you have to do like billboards isn't. The thing. Billboards is a part of the thing. Yeah. And I think that's the biggest mistake people make is they try to get in way too early in billboards. They like having a billboard.Yeah. There's like an ego thing there. Like I saw my name. Um, it's kind of cool. It's kind of cool. Hey man, I saw your billboard. Yeah. Things must be going well. Family is very proud of you. Yeah. Yeah. Family is very proud. Meanwhile, like you have no calls on the board. Yeah. Um, but their acceptance is worth it, so let's Yeah.But their acceptance is worth more than money. Yeah. Yeah. That's all I wanted. My mom is proud of me. I have a billboard on 80. Yeah. Okay. So like, I mean, billboards, I, I feel like one of the things that. Uh, you have to go into billboards is you have to make it memorable and it has to be easy. Like your guy with the, the one Sure.Um, eyebrow up. Uh, I like funny billboards. Those are the ones that yeah, lose 50 pounds a day. Donate your couch to, um. That's a good one. What's it called? It's we, we've done intentional typos. Yeah. People love correcting our typos. Mm-hmm. But it has to actually pull back to your brand. Brand. Yes. Uh, I know there's a billboard right outside my house and it's the, uh, if you know, you know, but just the acronyms.Yeah. I don't know what it's for. Sure. And so, like, I know that billboard, I'm remembering it because it's memorable, but like, I'm not tying that back to, oh, okay, now I can do, do my, um, my couch or, uh, the, uh, Jeff Cook, who's my real estate agent, right? Like, yeah. Um, you know, that, that's where you have to make sure that it ties back to your brand, um, and is memorable.But if it's not funny, I like you. I just don't think there's a bunch of, uh. Lawyers. Yeah. But like Scream and Akeem is my guy apparently that I'm gonna be reaching out to. Um, yeah, that's a good one. So yeah, I think it has to be memorable. Has to be pulled back into your brand. Yeah. Uh, and then like you're saying, you have to not just billboards, you have to go other places, I assume, is what the strategy is.Yeah. Yeah. Well, and I think like having a strategy, we like putting billboards in. Specific areas. Mm-hmm. And I like, I don't like getting too caught up in the messaging. I think you're right. Like it should just be funny and like that's interesting enough, right? Yeah. I think that some people, including us, like we've done over the years, like, here's a coupon or here's what, like none of that matters.Like it doesn't really, like nobody cares. They, but the name is helpful. Yeah. Um, and have like being remembered and it makes it a little bit easier to measure along with over the top, which is like Hulu or whatever. Um. If you do it in a market that you haven't done a ton of shit in. Yeah. So like if you go find a zip code that you wish you were more in and you're not doing a ton of work there.Yeah. Like, hey, over the top streaming, so like YouTube, Hulu, Roku, whatever. But like, you know, you can just isolate that zip code plus a couple billboards and then like watches work expands inside that zip code. And I feel like that's a really great use case for smaller companies. Yeah. But that's like the strategy.Is, um, going into it with like, what do I hope to get outta this? And then how do I measure whatever I hope to get outta this? Well, that's actually what I was gonna ask you next is like, how are we tracking this? Because if it's a phone number, unique phone number on there, right? Like no one's, or you should not be driving and texting and my typing phone like Yeah, I need a plumber, right?Yeah. Um, or like even a QR code that's really hard to track. Um, I feel like it's similar to the way, you know, as an agency, we track podcasts. Yeah. Like, people will see me on the podcast and they'll come in and they'll tell us in person, oh yeah, I've been watching the podcast, but like, was it the podcast that finally got them to the point where like, oh yeah, I wanna reach out.Or was it that Facebook ad that they saw? Yeah. And that was like finally the offer clicked and they reached out. Yeah. But then the podcast is what built the brand for them to even go, oh yeah, I finally found this offer. I'm ready. Let's go. Yeah. Well, I think like. I'm gonna sum up the question as attribution.Yeah. So attribution is how do we attribute a lead to a lead source? And attribution is kind of a hairy, uh, it's, it's a hairy game. Yeah. Because if all you look at is like surface level data mm-hmm. Then attribution will tell you things that's not, not real. Uh, like that scenario is a perfect example where, hey, maybe this brand has been introduced by a podcast or.Billboards or radio or TV or whatever, and then they Google that name. Mm-hmm. And they click on your LSA and attribution went to LSA, right. Or PPC, or it's like it's whatever last click is gets attribution. So it makes branded activity really hard to measure. So you have to try to separate those two when you're thinking about, Hey, is this act, is this branded activity driving results?Yeah. You know, if you're just like, Hey, I dumped 50 grand a month into brand. All that happened was I got more leads from Google. Mm-hmm. Well, hey, hey, that actually means it probably fucking worked. Yeah. Because people were looking for you more and Google's just taking credit for that last click. Yeah. But like all the top of funnel stuff worked.Yeah. The way we like to measure it is branded search. Mm-hmm. So that's either branded search or like direct call, like non-paid lead call. Yeah. Because we'll have organic calls separate from paid calls on a daily basis. Like measure how we're doing and uh, branded search. Rises dramatically as during periods of heavy brand investment.Okay. Where people are searching Wilson Plumbing. Yeah. Instead of plumber near me or whatever. Yeah. And you can get a lot of that data off, like Google will analytics just tell you. Yeah. Yeah. Either Google Analytics or I think there's a analytics inside the GBP profile. Mm-hmm. Where it tells you like what searches did you show up for?Yep. And a ton of It's like Wilson. Yeah. That an overwhelming amount is for Wilson. Interesting. Not like plumber near me. Like it's, it's like 80% is Wilson Wilson, 20% is all the other shit. Got it. Got it. How much do you think of that is, uh, because, you know, people searching for Wilson could be anything from, uh, a current client that's looking for your customer service phone number or.Um, it could be somebody that saw a billboard and now is looking for you, but it also could be, um, you know, um, you know, a past client that's looking for new business. So how are you in separating that out? Now, this is not billboards, but how are you separating that from net new clients to past clients who are searching for you?It's hard. Um, because what, what, I think we've said this on the show before, but we frequently rebuy our own customers. Mm-hmm. Uh, so like we'll get somebody who we bought. On LSA two years ago. Mm-hmm. And we're like, yeah, okay. So we're gonna, we're gonna rehash them and contact them and outbound and SMS and all the things we do every single day to like try to retain that customer.Yeah. And then two years later, we'll like, that customer will be on Angie's List looking for someone to provide a service to their home. And we bought that freaking lead again and we're like, are you serious? Like, we just bought you for $80 two years ago. Yeah. The CAC man. Yeah. And now you're like. We need another 30.Yeah. You know, uh, but it, it is, it is kind of funny. Um, but we, we do have that level of information. Where did we get all these leads? Uh, and yeah, we, we consistently rebuy our own leads. Which again makes sense if somebody, like, if I used a service provider. I don't save their numbers in my fucking phone, so I just go back to Google and retype.I'm pretty sure this was their name. And then I probably click on LSA again. Yeah. And like I do the same thing. Yeah. Yeah. I think it makes sense and I don't mind rebuying a customer as long as I get the customer. Yeah, we don't, we don't care either. It's sort of like, okay. I don't, I don't know part of it, so I wish it was just ones, but I wish it was one, but like, it is what it is.But it was very funny. I remember Jesse like being like, yeah, so we're actually rebuying a lot of our customers. And I was like, oh my God. It's like a hundred grand a month, just like buying the same people. Oh, that's, that's funny. One of the, one of the big benefits of billboards, which I think people like.I would assume people like mm-hmm. Is it's not digital. Mm. Mm-hmm. And digital is kind of, there's a lot. Yeah. There's a lot to digital, I think. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, specifically depending on where you're located, you might already be really flooded with digital. Yeah. Um, like how big is the moat? Yeah. You know, I, I wonder that when I see the small companies, so, you know, we bought this business in January and they had a hundred and, uh.I wanna say 80 or May, maybe 200 Google reviews, but like somewhere in that, you know, in that zone, which I think is a good zone. I think above a hundred LSA starts getting productive. Yeah. That, that's how it used to work Anyways, I don't know if that's still the number. Mm-hmm. Um, it helps. Yeah. But like under a hundred, I feel like Ls A is.Not super productive. Yeah. No, no. It's still self super productive. But the more you get, you have like, okay, a little bit of an exponential game. Mm-hmm. Um, I've actually had that a couple times on the podcast where they, they've heard that specifically said, and they're like, oh, hey, we don't wanna do LSA because it's not productive until you get to a hundred.Yeah, no, it, it is productive. Yeah. Um, but like, yeah, like you start seeing, you know, you hit that a hundred, you start seeing a little bit more of a return. Yeah. Yeah. Um, and, and backwards too. Like if you start getting a bunch of negative reviews, you start to see the reduction. Totally. Of that as well. Yeah.Um, and so, but yeah, once you hit levels of scale, it definitely Google's recognizing that. Yeah, I think there's, I um, there's a company for sale in Columbus right now and I was sort of like going through their, going through their sim and I didn't get that far. I do wanna get a little bit farther, but Columbus is, I, I think, an interesting use case for this conversation because.Columbus is big. Like, you know, Eco's down there, I think they have like 22,000 Google reviews and I don't know how many Apex has, but probably like 12 to 14,000. Yeah. And there's Atlas Butler and like there's some really big businesses in Columbus that have huge review modes. Yeah. And like review mode is really complicated for digital marketing.'cause like everything is based off your Google business profile. Yeah. Like your LSA, your PPC, like everything points to your Google business profile now. Yeah. So I think that's kind of what people like, well, all that to say is I, I need to see if they're buying through LSA 'cause That'd be interesting.'cause they're only like a $2 million or $3 million business. So if they're successfully competing on LSA against that, then that really debunks a lot of the digital, uh, problems. But, um, and they only launched five years ago too. That's the other thing. That's not bad. Yeah. So like they really moved pretty quick.Yeah. In a highly competitive market. That's awesome. Yeah, I thought it was good for them. It was really cool. Um. Yeah, I'd love to have 'em on the show. I think that's kind, I think that's kind of, that's a hyper competitive market that's $2 million in four or five years. That's a lot. That's cool. That's, it's really, I wanna talk to, it's really, I, I would know.What do they do? I wanna talk to this guy. But yeah, I think what people like about billboards is it's analog, it's out of home, it's, you know, non diggi. It's the same reason, like direct mail is attractive. It's like, Hey, I can control this. I can. Optimize it. I, there's a lot I can do and I, you know, I have to, I don't have to pay the, the Google gods to get more leads.Yeah. Which I feel like a lot, a lot of people are in like the, let's get off digital, uh, train. Um, or at least let's diversify from Google. Yeah. Which like I get, but obviously Google still gets a ton of our money. Yeah. Um, but like, that's why we launched canvassing. Yeah. Which is, hey, we wanted a scalable source that wasn't just Google.Yeah. Well, any company that is reliant on a single lead source, you're vulnerable is, yeah. You're putting yourself at risk. Google is changing their algorithm every day. I know. It's so crazy. I remember when it used to be like once a year. Once a year. Yeah. Yeah. And we'd all freak out and we'd be like, oh no, I know this is gonna change.This is happening like monthly now. Yeah. It's exhausting. And so we're having to redo things. Uh, we'll get, they'll change something. Yeah. We have to redo how we put out content, um, and things like that. That's not changed for billboards. The game literally forever has been, you know, get billboards up, make them creative.Obviously people are getting better at it. Yeah. I'm only gonna remember so many billboards in my head. Doesn't matter how creative or good you are at it, it's probably limits five maybe. Mm-hmm. Um, and so, I mean, the only one I remember is. Uh, the ney, the injury attorney. Yeah. But they're, they do a great job.Yeah. And I also think they, they do a lot and I think that's such an important piece of the puzzle. I think so. Like if I, if you're an HVAC company and you have one or two or five billboards, I don't think that's very much Yeah. Unless it's five billboards in like a half a mile. Yeah. Because I think density is a really important part of the puzzle.Sure. Like, I, I actually think I saw 15 billboards. From Tim Ney on my way to work and I have a 22 minute drive. Yeah, so like that's a lot. And I think that that's an important part is, you know, if Cleveland's a big market like population and spread. Sure. And if I had one in like over, you know, 40 minutes that way and 30 minutes this way, I think I'd be defeating the purpose.So yeah, maybe if you're trying to do billboards, well pack 'em the zip code you really want. As tight as you can. Yeah. Yeah. Like five or 10 in a zip code feels really good to me. Yeah, commutes, I think, you know, you want 'em to be on commutes. Uh, highways are helpful, but like there's a lot of commuted roads that aren't a highway.We had this one stretch, um, that is a highway. Um, and it's in between like my city and, uh, I'm in Charleston. So Charleston's the big city. Yeah. And there are like, I wanna say seven or eight billboards in a row within like, oh, totally. Not even a mile stretch, like half a mile. And so you're going back and each one is for one single company.Yes. Bottom all. And it was one sentence, and I remember it was something to the effect of. Uh, we will do a good job at a profit if we can, at a, um, loss if we have to, no matter what. You'll get good service. Summer roofing company. Yeah. Uh, no longer there, they've taken 'em down, so maybe they weren't working as well, but like I very much remembered, uh, that one.Yeah. That feels pretty good. Yeah. I like, I like that. Or like doubles, you know, I passed a double on the way in mm-hmm. Where they were on top of each other and they used it for one, one billboard. But I think density's really important. Like on my, on my way to work, God, I piss a lot of billboards, uh, on, on my way to work.There's a, there's an HVAC company and I've never heard of this HVAC company before. Mm-hmm. Uh, which tells me a lot. Right? Yeah. Like, if I haven't heard of you and your billboard is on my way to work. Like we are competing. Mm-hmm. And if I haven't heard of you, like you're probably not that big. Yeah. Uh, like I could be wrong.Maybe like my attention is elsewhere, but like you're probably very sneaky. Not big enough to have a billboard on my way to work. As Wilson has grown into a regional powerhouse, I have stopped having the time to be able to babysit our Google business profiles. And that's why we started using big reputation.It turns my Google business profile into a dependable lead engine without pulling me back into the weeds. Within the first 30 days of using big reputation call volume from our Google business profiles went up nearly 27%. Jobs booked from Google also went up 20%. Without us spending any more time to manage it helps us keep our profile active.Manages reviews, responds fast and shows Google a business that's trusted, alive and worth ranking. You also get real visibility into what is happening, your review volume, your sentiment trends, which tax locations or teams customers are actually talking about. There's no more guessing, so it's less babysitting, it's more signals to Google, and most importantly, it's more inbound calls.If you want Google working for you without becoming another job, check out big reputation.ai. I think the thing I dislike about it, and maybe this is just because I'm. An ads guy or like I'm a marketing guy. But like, once you get that billboard up, it's hard to change. Yeah. You're not just messing around the copy.Yeah. 'cause what we do is we put out a piece of copy and we see how the market reacts. Yeah. And if, do we get enough clicks? Yes. No. Okay, cool. We're feedback. Yeah. Um, but like you get that up there, you're kind of just like, yeah. And if it starts working, was it the other things that you're doing? Mm-hmm. The TV and the radio and the, uh, the Facebook ads?Or was it just that copy was so dang good, you know? Yeah. What is it? So, I don't love that part about billboards. I think the, the, um, I thought of this my, the way I would sum up, like I, I'm that example again of that, of that small business. And I, I've, that's sort of a pain point for me because I know like, this industry's really hard.Yeah. And the last two years have been really challenging. Mm-hmm. And it kind of like pains me to watch companies. Burn dollars that can't afford to burn those dollars. Yeah. And I, I think that is my, like, overarching opinion on billboards is I, I've talked with so many contractors and I think I probably felt this way at one point too, where I was on like my last leg mm-hmm.To get a lead and I went and signed an advertising agreement of some type. In like a moment, sort of a, like a desperation. Like, I need this to happen. I need this lead, I need this to work, and if this doesn't work, I'm kind of fucked. Yeah. And I'm sure you've dealt with that too. Yeah. Where like this is not strategy, this is desperation.Yeah. And I think that's what bugs me so much about the, the billboard thing and probably why I have such, such a strong opinion about it is I watch these small contractors that like. I've never heard of you. Yeah. That probably means you're coming at a point of desperation. Like you're, this is not str strategic for you.Yeah. Like, you are desperate. You need a lead. You're an HVAC only business. Yeah. At the end of 2025. Like you are desperate. Yeah. And I, it's, it's just like painful to watch. Yeah. And like, you know, that they could do something better. With those dollars. Oh yeah. Lemme ask you this. I mean, I feel like, um, billboards from a lead perspective, although really good, and I know I've, I've had those conversations where they're like a $25 million company and literally all they did was billboards.No, no digital. Yeah. Yeah. And they're, you know, like, I get it. They can clean up. People have done it and have done it well. Yeah, absolutely crush. Um, but what about for hiring? Like, is that a good like tactic to, because I feel like you're like your target market to everybody that's there. Yeah. Constantly seeing a chance for them to come, uh, be a technician at your company.Yeah. You know, that's already a, a problem that I've heard from lots of clients, which is, you know, hiring, uh, new technicians. So, um, do you feel like that's a good use of those dollars? I think for the right industry. Yeah. Okay. I think for the right industry, I think for like, uh, I don't know that I would run it for like plumbing, hvac, but like maybe there's somebody out there.I'd love a comment below if, if that worked for you. But, uh, I think trucking, landscaping, power washing, like very, like labor. Mm-hmm. Uh, not like skilled trade, but labor. Yeah. That would feel like, that makes a ton of sense. Yeah. Um, roofing maybe. I struggle with the skilled trade side of it. Mm-hmm. But like, obviously like roofers are skilled tradesmen, but like, it's a different level of skilled tradesmen than like a licensed holding, you know, trades person.So yeah, I think for, for the right industry, I think it could be really successful. Uh, and like how big is the business? Yeah. Uh, you know, there's a power washing company here locally, and they have, um, they have to hire like 400 people every March. Because it's a $35 million freaking power washing company.Yeah. So they have to put 400 people through it. They lose 200 in the first 30 days. Yeah. And then they have 200 for the rest of the season and they slowly lose them. And then they, you know, do layoffs 'cause it's winter. I feel like that is a perfect use case where like they have a large, like if you start hiring billboards in January, you run them through May.Like Yeah. It's a perfect use case of sort of a mass hiring Yeah. Billboard. But like, if I need one plumber, I, I should probably just like use a job board. Mass hiring terrifies me. Totally. Off topic and a whole new conversation. Yeah. Another podcast. But like, we hire one at a time. We bring them in. We do lots of training, lots of handholding until you're to a place where we feel like we can trust you.The idea of just like, oh, hey, we're gonna hire more, like 10. Feels like mass hiring maybe even five for me. Yeah. Um, our biggest onboarding classes have probably been like 10. Really? Yeah. See that We'll do it. That, that would stretch me and I Yeah. But like. We basically onboard every two weeks. A normal class is two to three people.It's just cohort. Okay. Cohort. Cohort. We've got it machined. Yeah. Do you have like an actual trainer, like somebody that, that that's their job is to get people up to speed that way? No, we did at one point. Um, it didn't quite work the way we wanted it to. Um, so we have like h it, it's sort of just ingrained in our schedules now.So like people have just different sections that they cover and it's a two week program. Got it. Yeah. So at, at any given point, there's like five people in onboarding. Got it. Maybe more, might even be seven. 'cause like now there's other branches. Yeah. Yeah. There's always somebody over there too. Yeah. And you're buying all these companies, so Yeah.You have to keep training. Yeah. Yeah. Pretty much. Yeah. Pretty much. All right. So side tangent over. Yeah. Billboards. So non-digital, I don't like the desperation factor. Mm-hmm. I, that just like hurts me in my soul. Mm-hmm. Um, like I want everyone to win. Even if I compete against you, I want you to win. And, um, yeah, it just like bugs me, I guess, how to get them to win.I think we talked about that a little bit. Uh, funny, funny, memorable. Has to type back to your brand. Yeah. It can't just be funny. It's gotta like funny and yeah, it makes sense for the brand. Short, short message. Mm-hmm. Um, I like, I don't think a phone number, uh, I don't think a website, like, I don't think it matters.Um, I think is no like the funny. The way we try to do it is like the mascot. Yeah. Uh, and the message or the name and the message. Yeah. Uh, like we did some, um. We did some that were intentionally misspelled, which was kind of funny. We actually, uh, as you can assume, that's the most phone calls we got. Yeah.Is, Hey, did you know? Yeah, we did know. How's your furnace? Um, yeah, it is kind of funny. People love to correct you. Uh, we did, um, it was like, Hey, you're a 10, but your HVC is a four. So like, I don't dunno. That's good. Yeah, it was good. Like, we got a lot of comments on that one. I like the compliment. Um, yeah, people liked, they liked that.They thought that was kind of funny. Uh, I'm trying to remember what the other, we tend to go just like cheeky. Yeah. And, uh, that has been valuable. Yeah. And as few words as possible. Yeah. Someone's driving, right? Yeah, someone's moving along. So I think you can go too cheeky though. Like, there's one that like, uh, is a billboard and it says size matters.And it's talking about like, yeah, they're the biggest lawyer practice in the area and I'm just like. I don't know if I want my lawyer making dick jokes. Like, I don't know, like I feel like maybe I'll try somebody else. Um, so that's hilarious. You know, I, I could see that. Yeah, I, I could see that. I mean, well, I remember it in HVAC.The classic one is, Hey, your wife's hot. Let's get your AC checked. And, but that, that's good. That's good. I know. It's a good one. I mean, it's been used and abused over the years. Yeah. Like, Hey man, your wife is hot. Let's get that ac check. Uh, but, but yeah, I agree. Like, is that too cheeky? Is that too whatever?Like, we've done some, we had a billboard once. Um, I don't, I don't even remember what the message was. I was surprised. It was like slightly cheeky. Right. Okay. And, um. This is the other thing with billboards, like potentially a con mm-hmm. Is, uh, the public will contact you if they don't like it. So it, yeah.So we've, uh, like that one's a good example, like the dick joke from the attorney. Like Yeah. Somebody called that attorney and be like, I don't like this. Oh, yeah. So we, we had some billboard and it was not even that bad. Like we had way worse ones out there. Yeah. And they called up and they're like, Hey.Ralph, which is my grandfather. Mm-hmm. Like, you know, my family, my founder. He's like, Ralph would not have liked this. And I was like, that was my fucking grandfather. Like, you didn't, you did not know. Like Ralph probably would've liked this. This is hilarious. You didn't know Ralph, like you did not know this guy.Uh, but it was kind of funny. People are like, Hey, Uhuh not in my town. Ralph did not, he, yeah. Well maybe that is the strategy. Piss people off. You are cheeky enough to piss people off to where they go to your GMB and they make a phone call. Yeah. They grab the directions. They come to your office. There we go.So they can sit in front and view and say, yeah, your grandfather would've been disappointed, bro. We would be rolling over in his group right now. This, this is the new strategy. Yeah. Somebody please test this and let us know how that goes for you. Well, like I said, we'll bring you on the show, I promise.Yeah. We'll, yeah. Well, we, we put out the, the yard sign mm-hmm. Episode and like Isaac. Like he went way too hard in like one zip code. And I think he put like, he's like, yeah dude, we got 500 signs and we put all 500 signs in one neighborhood. And I was like, oh wow, okay. Like he's texting me this as it's happening.I'm like, I don't know if that's a good idea or not, but like we'll find out. And he, like, a couple weeks later, he's on the podcast in person and he's like, dude's a terrible idea. So many people called us and they were like, you're ruining our neighborhood. And um, man, that's the problem with out of home marketing.Yeah. Is the court of public opinion. Has entered your life, you know? Yeah. Yeah. They'll let you know. That's amazing. Yeah. That's amazing. But yeah, the, the, your wife is Hot one is a pretty classic. I love that one. Pretty classic. I love that one. Um, but yeah, I think cheeky is the right way to do it. Um, I think that.What doesn't seem to work as well. Um, I'd love it if somebody's got like data to, to either disprove me or prove me. Right? Like, either way data would be interesting. What I don't think works as well is very, uh, like coupon clipper mm-hmm. Type of, uh, billboards like we have, we have a, a PE firm. Um, it, it's a group called Bosky locally, but they're owned by Sila and they have these like, uh, $3,000 furnace, uh, billboards.Mm-hmm. Which I'm sure does drive traffic. I don't know if it drives the traffic that you would want. 'cause $3,000 is like. Half of the market. Yeah. So like they're saying like, Hey, we have the best deal in town. Which maybe that's good. It also feels like that might not be the clients that you want. Yeah.Is people that are wanting the very best deal in town. Like $3,000 is very low. Very low. Yeah. Yeah. So I feel like that's not done well, but uh, maybe someone out there is like totally killing it with. Um, like sort of the coupon clipper style. I feel like that with that, the one, the way that's gonna work is if somebody is having a conversation with somebody else already and they go, Hey, it's gonna be six grand.They're like, man, I really remembered it was, it's gotta be lower than three grand. Okay, let me go search for that. Yeah. Uh, and maybe that's the massive market value. Like can you get enough of those to make up that profit percentage that you're not gonna be getting? I don't know. That feels low. Uh, yeah, I dunno.I mean, or or you go in there and you try to upsell. Yeah. Which is like, has to be a core part of the strategy Yeah. Is like, yes, this is the furnace, but like add the ac install it's 15. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Or, or like charge for the, we literal just hand you it. Good luck. It, it could be. 'cause I'm sure that, um, like I think they run a good business, so I'm sure there's something there that I'm, that I'm missing.But I feel like it adds a barrier when you get out there instead of like, oh, you're the funny one. It's, oh, you're the one that, I thought this was 3000, now it's eight. Like, what happened? Yeah. I feel like billboards because of the tracking issues. Um, one of the things that's probably missed is whether something is successful or not or if it's just up.Yeah, like generally speaking, if you see somebody advertising on Google or Facebook, like, you know, they're running it because there's an ROI, otherwise at some point they're gonna go, Hey, I'm gonna turn this off and go something else. Yeah. Whereas billboards, I feel like because the attribution's a little bit harder, that people just leave it up thinking it's working and when it's not.Well, it doesn't take much to think it works. And I think this is why people like radio, tv, billboard, like the smaller contractor, the ego component I think is a pretty important part of the puzzle because they'll hear, um, like, Hey, I saw your billboard. So in their mind I think they're like, oh, someone's saw my billboard.Yeah, it worked. Mm-hmm. But like that's somebody that knows you, they know that you run that company. Mm-hmm. They commented to you that they saw that billboard. It wasn't like you didn't drive a dollar from that. Yeah. But like you did get positive feedback. Yeah. That someone saw that it existed. Yeah. And I think, yeah, I think people do confuse that.Yeah. I think you're right. 'cause it is hard. Yeah. And that's the almost the only feedback you get if you're not like looking at like search volume data. The only feedback you get is people commenting to you. Yeah. Hey, you heard your radio ad? Yeah. Here's an uncomfortable truth. 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I mean, like, what size company are you? Like if I come to you and say, I've got a $1 million plumbing company.I'm putting all my money to billboards. I'm guessing you're going, see, the problem is I've seen that happen and that's what I'm like, stop, stop it. Stop it right now. What? What's that number? What's that threshold? If I said five, are you like. No, any like 10 billboard's done well needs to be a part of a branding strategy, and you're not affording a branding strategy till like 20, $25 million.Okay. Like we talked to, um, we talked to a PE firm, I think I've talked about this on the show before, uh, LEAP Partners and they have 19 or 20 brands or something like that. And the smallest brand was like 3 million in revenue. And the biggest was. 40 or 50 or whatever. And what they consistently found was brand had no meaningful impact until like $20 million.Mm. Which, like I've said that on the show for frigging ever. Yeah. Like, I think you can just buy leads up to $20 million. Mm-hmm. And I think that if you're under 20, like stop being cheeky with it. Yeah. Like literally go buy the freaking leads. Just go buy 'em Like they exist. Why, why are we trying to invent new things?Like it doesn't matter. Yeah. Just go buy the leads. They, they're out there somewhere. And then once you hit like kind of a little bit of a cap, like twenties, a little bit of a cap for most markets. Um, yeah. Get, invest in a branding. Yeah. Uh, but I think under that, like you just can't afford to do it that well.Yeah. Um, I, I don't think, and if you can't afford, like all you're doing is slowing the company down. Yeah. Like the company that, the $5 million company that was spending a ton on billboards, like if they would've spent. Taken every dollar of that and put it into just leads. Yeah. They would be $10 million in like a year.Like that's a ton of money. Like quarter of a million dollars a year. Just buying leads is a lot of freaking leads. Oh yeah. But they were probably very obsessed about getting off Google. It's like you just need to be in Google. Yeah. Like you're a $5 million business. Just like go be in Google. Yeah, yeah, yeah.So yeah, I think 2020 is the number, I think under 20, like it branding can have a piece of your pie, but like it should be. 90% spend on leads, 10% brand. Yeah. And I think when you get bigger, that mix maybe becomes like a 60 lead, 40 brands. Yeah. But that's even, that's a bit vulnerable. Yeah. I think, like I've talked to a lot of companies that are like.The opposite, like or 50 50, like 50 brand 50 leads. Mm-hmm. And consistently, those are the ones that are complaining about having like, oh, my board's slow. Yeah. And they're a $30 million business and they're spending a fuck load on brand. And it's like, great. Well like. Have you maxed out LSA? Like, are you buying leads?They're like, no, we love our brand. And I'm like, I love your brand for you, but like your technicians don't give a shit when they go home at one. Yeah. So if anybody's under strong opinion on this, I'm just like, stop complaining and just go buy the leads. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Just like I, yeah. Go get it. I'm slow.Yeah. Great. How many leads are you buying? None. Oh. We love our billboards. Uh, throw a rock at somebody. Well, if anybody's doing less than $20 million and is having success with billboards or branding, let us know. Love, we wanna know in the comments. Love to hear it. Next week we talk, uh, wrapping trucks, so, oh God, yeah.No. Oh my God. If you, if you like the strong opinions, here we go. God, show up next week and this will be a really good episode. Yeah, this is good. This is good. Alright. Thanks for tuning in. Make sure you like, comment and sub.
